Donny's Ramblings

You’re totally right. It takes discipline to open something and just start reading. Quite a bit of the time I will read the book of James just for the fact that I can finish it in a few minutes (its a short “letter”). Other times I’ll read the apostle Paul’s writings to colossians. My opinion is that if there ever was a model church, the colossians had it.But even then I’m in the same boat with an apathy of reading and not knowing where to start if I did.So I then rely on my friends. About a month ago a good friend of mine, and I, started a “college” ministry through our church with the help of the church staff. Our church, while good in size, doesn’t have but maybe a handful of 19-25 year old members. Our goal was two fold. One to grow that particular group and make it into a bible fellowship with in depth study.Since that time we’ve been more less a topical discussion group. That has helped me quite a bit as we take a topic and before the meeting I will know at least half of the scripture concerning the topic, if there are any (we have some topics that are extra biblical IE Cultural mindsets).So, food for thought:A: Read something that is fairly easy to comprehend, like many of the New Testament books.B: Get involved with a “bible study” so you’ll have a point of reference and a group to converse with.Your commenting too much friend,Ron

Ron,A Bible study group would be a good idea. I hadn’t thought of that for some reason.I also failed to mention that XXXChurch.com gave me an “Encountering Jesus” New Testament. It’s “Today’s New International Version” and is laid out like a Novel. It’s definitely different than anything I’ve ever seen before.Reading books has also given me references to scripture. Perhaps I’ll go to the local Christian bookstore and browse around until I find a “Bible study” manual or something. If such a thing exists, that is.Right now I’m infatuated with Jesus, so I do spend a lot of time talking to him.You’re definitely not commenting too much. There is no such thing on this blog.- Donny -

Donny,Seeing the great number and wide variety of input you get on this blog makes me hesitant to “add to the noise” but I’ll throw in a couple of thoughts here.Another great version of the Bible, that puts it into story form is The Message – you can find it at any bookstore. It’s harder to follow along in a Bible Study or church service with, but for just reading on your own and allowing the words to come to life – it’s my personal favorite.Also, not being a fan of K-Love myself (understatement)I’ll recommend a few artists for you. After reading your “me you zack” post, you must check out Mute Math. They are experimental in style, but very accessable. At the top of my playlist – and the words are awesome as well. iTunes has it available.Also check out The David Crowder Band. Great stuff.

If you want a good translation, nobody’s done it better than King James’ scholars.

I disagree with you solem. The KJV/NKJV translations were not the best. There are certain words that I have see particularly in the KJV NT that were mistranslated. Also the NIV is taken from more, older, and simply better manuscripts (IE the Dead sea scrolls).My opinion, after doing a little research on the subject, is that the NIV is the closest literal translation that there is. And not only that but, as for the wordings of the KJV/NKJV, there isn’t any old english spoken anymore.Hast thy made thyself clear?However, I believe it is totally up to your wants. And though there is a difference here and there in the translations, that is the least of any problems we have.Grace & Peace,Ron

I am actually kinda qualified to speak to speak to this one.It’s pretty much unanimous among scholars who start without preconceived notions that the KJV is not a great translation (because it originates from newer less reliable manuscripts and only takes into consideration one family of manuscriptsd) and we don’t need scholars to tell us it’s tough to read and understand.There are two schools of bible translation: word for word (or formal equivence) and thought for thought (dynamic equivalence). Thought for thought translation generally sacrifices a little bit of accuracy for ‘understandability’. The New Living Translation is a good example of a thought for thought translation. Some people take issue with the fact that this translation (and many other thought for thought translations) take most male pronouns and make them gender neutral. The best word for word translations around are the New American Standard (NAS) and English Standard Version (ESV). They are really good for serious study, and not terribly difficult to understand, but can read a little wooden. The NIV is kind of a middle of the road approach between thought for thought and word for word.I am not a huge fan of the Life Application Bible – I kind of like to let the Bible speak for itself and don’t want someone else’s comments before I’ve even had a chance to think about what I just read. But if it’s helping people grow, more power to them.I have come to read the Bible for content instead of quantity. Everyday I read a paragraph and go back over it until I feel like God has shown me something. If i am reading in the old testament I usually read a whole chapter, but the NT has so much packed in every word a paragraph is enough for me. I need to digest what I read or it’s a waste of time.A tragically underrated and very simple book on studying the Bible is ‘How to Study the Bible’ by R.A. Torrey. It is an easy read and very simple in it’s approach.As far as where to start? I’d start with John. Then maybe Acts or Genesis. Those are all foundational books that are very interesting and not to didactic.

Nothing like using the online Bibles and checking the multiple translations Donnie. That’s so cool that you have the option to do that. One of my professors at Bible School said the best way to do a hermeneutic (read: vivisection of language) study approach to the Bible is by holding several different translations next to each other. In 15 years of ministry, I gotta say, those were some wise words.My swords of choice? The NIV is the Bible I grew up with, but it’s a dynamic translation, as was already mentioned. If I just want to sit and read a shitload of scripture then I would pull out the CEV, the Contemporary English Version, which was put out by the Canadian Bible society and is a very approachable translation. And when I’m in a mood for something spicy, I choose Eugene Peterson’s “Message”. I would also recommend audio versions, seeing as you listen to the radio lots in your car. I believe the Message has a good audio version, and in MP3 format, quite affordable.

Donny, I’m the guy who e-mailed you about a church awhile back. Have you found a good church that you feel part of yet? I guess what I mean is not just a church where you’re learning, but where you have community to hang out with and talk to about all sorts of issues. I agree with Ron, who said that a Bible Study group is really helpful. By the way, at my church, right here in good ol’ Redding, we are now moving out of our discussion on sex, and into a focus on what it means to hear the voice of God and how we can continue to experience his presence and direction in our lives. I think it might be something you’d like.

Josh,I’d be happy to attend your church and check things out. Can you email me the address?- Donny -

hey donny,i used to hate reading the scriptures. hate. well, not like i hate broccoli, but was bored. but what i found kept me in the scriptures were 2 things…portions of scripture that troubled me (like when jesus says ‘my yoke is easy and my burden is lite’). so i would just dive into these portions trying to find out what jesus meant…which would actually lead me to reading other books, just to bring me back to the bible with more insight in the cultural/historical context of the time…finally helping to enlighten me. and second, i was fascinated with Jesus, so i just read the gospels over and over again, writing down every question i had (even if i never went back and looked at those questions). i hope this helps you. im praying for you donny, like you’re my brother, and i don’t even know you. yet somehow, that feels pretty natural. so my brother from another mother, peace to you.brad

sometimes i log in as brad, instead of brad loves the sox, go sox. lol, anyway. i’ll shut up now

Donny:Lately I’ve been reading The Message. Which is a paraphrase. Take the “thought for thought” type of translation one step further and add modern day catch-phrases and conversational lingo.For example…Matthew 5:5 NIV5Blessed are the meek,for they will inherit the earth. Matthew 5:8 The Message5″You’re blessed when you’re content with just who you are—no more, no less. That’s the moment you find yourselves proud owners of everything that can’t be bought.peace|dewdehttp://www.furled.com

oops. they’re actually both Matt 5:5. my bad. I was gonna do 5:8 but changed at last minute.peace|dewdehttp://www.furled.com

Donny – if you can spare the coin, check out Logos Bible software at http://www.logos.com. If you like using your computer to read and study, their software will make doing that pure pleasure.It has several different Bible versions as well as daily devotional plans and more features than you can imagine (probably more than someone starting out would possibly use), including the ability to generate your own daily reading plan. Everything is dynamically linked so you can automatically go from one passage to a related passage or to commentaries and dictionaries etc.. You can also generate complete studies on words, passages or topics.Most imporantly, it’s very easy to use and really draws you in.

re. Anonymous and Dave;I quote: “Also the NIV is taken from more, older, and simply better manuscripts (IE the Dead sea scrolls).”Actually, that is not quite correct, please let me explain;We have in existance, two groups of Greek texts. One is the “Textus Receptus” – which comprises of over 5000 manuscripts and is hence the “Majority Text.” The other is suitably called the “Minority Text” (sinaiticus and vaticanus) which only represent 5% of existing manuscripts.The big thing here to make clear is that these two groups are “grouped” for a reason: The 5000+ majority texts all agree/make sense with each other; However, in the case of the minority texts, they do not agree with the Textus Receptus, or in fact with each other among themselves.So that in itself is instant concern regarding this Minority Text; and for good reason.The Minority Text is horribly flawed because:1. The Minority Texts abound with alterations, often a single manuscript being amended by several different scribes over a period of many years; something the Aaronic priests and Masorites would never have tolerated when making copies of the Scriptures.2. The Minority Texts OMIT approximately 200 verses from the Scriptures. This ammount is equivalent to 1st and 2nd Peter!!3. Like I said allready, the Minority Texts contradict themselves in hundreds of places, and they are doctrinally weak and often dangerously incorrect. Here is why that matters:Virtually every modern English Bible relies on the Minority Text as its underlying New Testament text, in preference, to Textus Receptus. Like for example, the popular NIV.Of course this is a huuuuge topic, and anybody who researches it will quickly discover that the perversions in these new “bibles” are simply staggering. NEW King James included.If you’ve read this far, here’s a quick example: The word “Lucifer” is found one time in the King James Bible – Isaiah 14:12 (KJV) “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!”In the NIV, the word “Lucifer” is completely gone, and is identified as the “morning star”. (NIV) “How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!So we know that accordning to the NIV, Satan is Lucifer, the “morning star.”This is where that counts: The following passages in the NIV show the “morning star” as Jesus Christ.(NIV) Revelation 22:16,”I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you [1] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”Also, 2 Peter 1:19 in the NIV, again proclaims the morning star, as Jesus:”And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.”So how astonishing, is that? The NIV contradicts itself. In fact, it calls Satan Jesus. And of course we all know that Satan fell because he wanted to ‘be’ God (saying “I will ascend into heaven” and “I will exalt my throne above the stars of God.”)If you ask me, this stinks of the Devil.The original KJV, does it right.

* Oh, and one more thing:Quoting annonymous: ” There are certain words that I have see particularly in the KJV NT that were mistranslated. Also the NIV is taken from more, older, and simply better manuscripts (IE the Dead sea scrolls).”This is impossible because the Dead Sea Scrolls only deal with the Old Testement, not the New.Not only that, but there is no difference between the bibles as to which text they use in the OT: KJV and NIV both draw from the Masoretic text ( i.e. Dead Sea Scrolls).Also quoting this: “My opinion, after doing a little research on the subject, is that the NIV is the closest literal translation that there is.” – In the opinion of the translators of the NIV, it is not even considered a “literal translation” but relies heavily on dynamic equivalence (as does the KJV, to some extent). Rgrds~

Everyone – I won’t take the trouble to refute all that point by point. Just google ‘KJV only’ or ‘KJV onlyism’ and you will find various defenses and refutations of the kinds of things solem is saying. And actually there is some truth in what solem said along with a bunch of conclusions I think are faulty.The main thing to understand is that most true Christians believe the Bible is inerrant IN IT’S ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS (check your church’s doctrinal statement and it probably uses that exact language). So the key to an accurate English Bible translation is to get as close as possible to the original manuscripts. While there are more manuscripts in the Textus Receptus line, they vast majority are significantly later manuscripts, meaning they are chronologicly further removed from the originals.As far as “removing verses from the Scripture” it’s really only an issue if you’ve already accepted the premise that the Textus Receptus / KJV is the only legitimate Bible. You don’t hear it mentioned that the Apocrypha was part of the original KJV. Protestants “removed it” about 15 years later.Solem is implying that every English Bible translation in the past 400 years or so is illegitimate and devil inspired. Must mean all the modern Bible translators and people who are reading them are terribly deceived. An extreme view? You tell me.At this point, this is a great big rabbit trail and i am not sure how edifying it all is, but I can’t just leave some of the things that were said sitting out there unchecked.Peace to solem and everyone else. If this stuff concerns you and you want to contact me off-line feel free – kingsolo@juno.comDave

Excuse me for the insensitive comment I’m about to make. Politically insensitive to the mentally disabled, but I love those who are mentally disabled and say this only to prove a point:Arguing about Bible translations is like running in the special olympics: even if you win, you’re still retarded!There are no winners. Seriously. When Christians spend time about who is right and wrong on Bible verses and translations they’re spending less time talking to their neighbors or friends about the message of Jesus’ love. It’s not really that important, anyway, in my opinion. If it was, we wouldn’t need churches and people to talk to about God. We’d just take scripture word for word.Is it wrong when your pastor gives his “interpretation” of the Bible from the pulpit? No. Likewise, there’s nothing wrong with reading a “translation”. If one does their own research it won’t matter if someone else got something a little bit wrong. Know what I mean?

In the Chapter called God’s Imminence, God’s Immensity AW Tozer’s book, The Attributes of God volume one, Tozer mentions that every time there is a new version that comes out, people automatically think they’ve received something new to the revelation of God and His Spirit. This isn’t to say that different versions fit people better, it’s just different.On that note, find the one that easiest for you to read. The New Living Translation, not to be mistaken with the Living Translation (which is a paraphrase) is good for it’s ease of reading. I lean toward the NIV, because it’s what I was raised with. But I prefer the NASB Updated (New American Standard Bible). It is harder to read, but it provides a more literal word-for-word translation that I like, while the NIV will take an entire thought from the original language, and find a similar phrase in English.The Message has it’s downfalls. It doesn’t claim to be a translation, just a paraphrase. For recreational type reading, it’s fine, but I have found discrepancies between it and the four other translations I regularly refer to for study.As for your last comment, you’re spot on, Donny. The thing to keep in mind with all translations: They involve humans. How can human language, even as varied as we have it now, in any way capable of relating to a completely infinite God? It can’t. Every translation has it’s problems. Part of the trick is to find one that you can understand. Get comfortable but not dogmatic about it. Then look at other translations. Language in the KJV/NKJV is harder for me to read, because I haven’t practiced it. I don’t know if it’s better or not, but it does some things right that other versions miss. And vice versa.As for software, check out e-sword.com. His is free software with tools, readers, devotions, etc. Some you have to pay for, but most is free. If it benefits, maybe slide him some cash to keep his own livelihood running.

Correction on the web site, it’s e-sword.net (my bad)

donny -I agree with the spirit of what you are saying. I don’t like to argue about Bible translations (or anything else really). But you need to realize something – there are a lot of people reading this blog and many of them are probably not solidly grounded in their faith. A week or two ago the issue of health and wealth theology came up, and I was so glad a couple of people threw up red flags, because that “gospel” has thrown a lot of well meaning legitimate Christians way off track. The KJV Only issue is not dissimilar in that those who believe that way see everyone else as “missing the boat”. I thought it appropriate to raise a red flag. That issue creates division in the church and gets people off track and emphasizing the wrong things. While we shouldn’t major on minors and we should have a “big tent”, we shouldn’t sacrifice truth and have no standards either. Which Bible is right is a very legitimate question. I realize it isn’t the one you asked, but it came up, and I think the answer is that while there is not one “right” English translation, it is important for serious Christians to understand the distinctions between translations and prayerfully consider which one(s) to use.Donnie, I think your answer says a lot about you and your spiritual gifts. Teacher/Prophet types are the ones who tend to give these things a lot of attention. You seem built as Exhorter (i.e. encourager) and maybe even an Evangelist to me. To someone with those gifts, issues like this are annoying because they do not directly lift people up or draw them to Christ. But it’s a part of guarding the truth, which is critical for a healthy church.Dave

Wow. . . I just found your site from a post on another blog (Fire & Ice).Let me just say “thank you.” Thank you for sharing your story to “the world.” Thank you for being honest about what’s going on in your life. Thank you for sharing your journey. And thank you for leaving the porn industry.I don’t struggle with porn (I’m a woman, although I’m sure there are many women who do.) BUT, I know so many Christian guys (mainly husbands of friends) who struggle with pornography (the reason why I’m staying “anonymous” on your blog, sorry). It’s a constant struggle for them. But they are all set up with accountability partners and such. Many of them use Covenant Eyes and their wives get their accountability reports. Having regulary accountability (like your blog, or a filter, or whatever) is definitely going to help. But sharing your story is even better.I will remember you in my prayers as you start a NEW career! –a sister in Christ

Hi to all reading. Wow. People asking questions. That is always good in my live. No questions = no answers. And i must state that some questions have no answers in black and withe. That is why Jesus left us with the Holy Spirit and other believers to help us on our travels. But to the point. I love all of you and know the Lord is working in your live. But you have to realize that the word of God (the bible and His spoken word) is without error and we as humans must try and concern if it is God speaking or man. So when you read your bible ask the Holy Spirit to guide you and open your eyes to His words. Remember everything written in the bible (ORIGINAL FORM) is His word and will and true. The world was created in 6 days and He rested on the 7th day.

God speed on your journey and may He guide you.
Abe

Thou Must get e-sword.

it is here:

http://www.e-sword.net/

you’re welcome. Love your Blog.