Comments on: Selfish Motivation, Perhaps? http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2006/11/16/selfish-motivation-perhaps/ The Blog of Donny Pauling: former porn producer, changed by Grace and Love... Fri, 12 Mar 2010 18:06:42 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Tracyhttp://spaces.msn.com/members/tracyscornerca/ http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2006/11/16/selfish-motivation-perhaps/comment-page-1/#comment-546 Tracyhttp://spaces.msn.com/members/tracyscornerca/ Sat, 18 Nov 2006 01:04:43 +0000 http://donnysramblings.wordpress.com/2006/11/16/selfish-motivation-perhaps/#comment-546 I really do appreciate your honesty, Donny. I seem to realize my own selfish motivation and pride more and more as time goes by. It can be discouraging, but it also shows me how much I completely and utterly need Jesus to come through in my life. I just can't do anything really good or pure on my own. I really do appreciate your honesty, Donny. I seem to realize my own selfish motivation and pride more and more as time goes by. It can be discouraging, but it also shows me how much I completely and utterly need Jesus to come through in my life. I just can’t do anything really good or pure on my own.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2006/11/16/selfish-motivation-perhaps/comment-page-1/#comment-545 Anonymous Fri, 17 Nov 2006 22:32:02 +0000 http://donnysramblings.wordpress.com/2006/11/16/selfish-motivation-perhaps/#comment-545 So I've been reading a couple of your blogs for the past 24 hours and its pretty amazing to see what's happening.<br /><br />I'm amazed from the contrast with the first xxxchurch podcast you were on in October 2005 compared to the latest one (I just listened to the latest xxxchurch podcast last night that you were on.)<br />It seems that you are tired and annoyed with "church" (in a religion sense) as I am to (when the Jesus message gets lost in a religion its a sad thing).<br /><br />I'm won't, and I refuse to preach at you to express the joy that I get from seeing the Spirit work in your life. But I have to say that I am joyful and encouraged to see what He is doing in your life. <br /><br />Dan<br />http://www.myspace.com/dansface So I’ve been reading a couple of your blogs for the past 24 hours and its pretty amazing to see what’s happening.

I’m amazed from the contrast with the first xxxchurch podcast you were on in October 2005 compared to the latest one (I just listened to the latest xxxchurch podcast last night that you were on.)
It seems that you are tired and annoyed with “church” (in a religion sense) as I am to (when the Jesus message gets lost in a religion its a sad thing).

I’m won’t, and I refuse to preach at you to express the joy that I get from seeing the Spirit work in your life. But I have to say that I am joyful and encouraged to see what He is doing in your life.

Dan
http://www.myspace.com/dansface

]]> By: Greybush http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2006/11/16/selfish-motivation-perhaps/comment-page-1/#comment-544 Greybush Fri, 17 Nov 2006 20:34:08 +0000 http://donnysramblings.wordpress.com/2006/11/16/selfish-motivation-perhaps/#comment-544 I was hanging out with my friend last night and part of our discussion was related to what you posted here. He's a non-Christian dating a Christian lady and he doesn't like her parents cuz they're judgemental yet he likes me cuz I don't judge him. I accept him for who he is despite his unbelief and I hope by my words and action of love that he may see how the spirit of God works. I was hanging out with my friend last night and part of our discussion was related to what you posted here. He’s a non-Christian dating a Christian lady and he doesn’t like her parents cuz they’re judgemental yet he likes me cuz I don’t judge him. I accept him for who he is despite his unbelief and I hope by my words and action of love that he may see how the spirit of God works.

]]> By: eph2810http://eph2810.com http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2006/11/16/selfish-motivation-perhaps/comment-page-1/#comment-543 eph2810http://eph2810.com Fri, 17 Nov 2006 05:26:33 +0000 http://donnysramblings.wordpress.com/2006/11/16/selfish-motivation-perhaps/#comment-543 I would like to quote my pastor on your post "Love the sinner, but not the sin". We are called to <i>gently</i> restore our brothers and sisters in faith and reach out to the lost and don't condemn them. Jesus didn't - He associated with tax-collectors, prostitutes and the like. But He also forgave them their sins through His mercy and grace...We should do like-wise. <br />I fall short of God's requirement every.single.day. A sin is a sin - but God forgives them all - if we turn from it...<br />Hope my rambling makes sense... I would like to quote my pastor on your post “Love the sinner, but not the sin”. We are called to gently restore our brothers and sisters in faith and reach out to the lost and don’t condemn them. Jesus didn’t – He associated with tax-collectors, prostitutes and the like. But He also forgave them their sins through His mercy and grace…We should do like-wise.
I fall short of God’s requirement every.single.day. A sin is a sin – but God forgives them all – if we turn from it…
Hope my rambling makes sense…

]]> By: John & Kristi http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2006/11/16/selfish-motivation-perhaps/comment-page-1/#comment-542 John & Kristi Fri, 17 Nov 2006 02:39:45 +0000 http://donnysramblings.wordpress.com/2006/11/16/selfish-motivation-perhaps/#comment-542 I will have to disagree with some of the intolerance entries earlier. I feel that we as the church have missed a great deal of the point of Jesus ministry. The point of Jesus ministry was not judgment but salvation, but it was never meant to end there. He wasn't tolerant to sinners, but instead He extended mercy and grace. He spoke truth, but it was so severely laced with love that every sinner was asking Jesus to come to their house for dinner. That is not the response of someone who was just judged, but one of appreciation for the love that was shown to them in spite of the fact that they had sinned. Jesus only spoke judgment to those who acted as if the Bible was God instead of the Word of God that required the Holy Spirit to even understand. That is why the Bible states in 2nd Corinthians 3, “He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.” Without the Holy Spirit guiding a Bible study, LOOK OUT! The Bible has been used to teach some of the worst sermons ever. Take Satan for example. Do you think he wasted his least powerful temptations on Jesus? No way! He used his best, the Bible. Why? Because the twisting of the words of God were taken out of context and they became untrue. Satan was always saying, “If you are the Son of God.” Why? Because if he can get you to doubt your identity that God has given you as a believer, than Satan does not need to accuse the brethren anymore because we accuse ourselves. <br />Jesus did not speak such words of judgment unless those who were in leadership of the church would counter His ministry by telling Him he was violating the scriptures. And in essence, that is true. Jesus did violate many of the laws of the Jews because they had built a system through the law that was not in tune with the heart of God. Jesus then became sin to complete the sacrificial requirements of the law. He did not abolish the law but He fulfilled it by becoming the sacrifice. The problem is that much of the church has bought Satan’s lies that they are still under the law and not under grace. Because the church has believed that, they begin judging according to the law and not grace. That is where you get this BS that has come out toward “sinners.” I believe that the Christians lash out because they claim to have the answers and in many cases they feel more condemned and depressed than people who don’t believe in Jesus. How is that the “good news?” <br />The message of the Gospel looses its attraction when you take power out of it. If we as the church began loving the people we are trying to reach and we got free ourselves, than maybe sharing Jesus wouldn’t be so difficult. Many of the laws of the Jews did not come from God, but were created by the leaders of the church. For instance, when Jesus healed the man on the Sabbath, many objected because it violated the law. When Jesus spoke to the woman at the well that was a violation of the law. When touched the leper, He was violating the law. When He went in to the house of a sick woman and took her by the hand to heal her, He violated the law. Jesus fulfilled the law in that He became sin for us to purchase us from the law of sin and death. So, I think this conversation should be about love, not tolerance. It is not to Christians credit that they use such hateful language in the name of Jesus. In my opinion, they only use such language because they don't know their God very well. If they did, they would try loving them and giving them a hug and allowing that love to show something worth living for.<br /><br />John & Kristi I will have to disagree with some of the intolerance entries earlier. I feel that we as the church have missed a great deal of the point of Jesus ministry. The point of Jesus ministry was not judgment but salvation, but it was never meant to end there. He wasn’t tolerant to sinners, but instead He extended mercy and grace. He spoke truth, but it was so severely laced with love that every sinner was asking Jesus to come to their house for dinner. That is not the response of someone who was just judged, but one of appreciation for the love that was shown to them in spite of the fact that they had sinned. Jesus only spoke judgment to those who acted as if the Bible was God instead of the Word of God that required the Holy Spirit to even understand. That is why the Bible states in 2nd Corinthians 3, “He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.” Without the Holy Spirit guiding a Bible study, LOOK OUT! The Bible has been used to teach some of the worst sermons ever. Take Satan for example. Do you think he wasted his least powerful temptations on Jesus? No way! He used his best, the Bible. Why? Because the twisting of the words of God were taken out of context and they became untrue. Satan was always saying, “If you are the Son of God.” Why? Because if he can get you to doubt your identity that God has given you as a believer, than Satan does not need to accuse the brethren anymore because we accuse ourselves.
Jesus did not speak such words of judgment unless those who were in leadership of the church would counter His ministry by telling Him he was violating the scriptures. And in essence, that is true. Jesus did violate many of the laws of the Jews because they had built a system through the law that was not in tune with the heart of God. Jesus then became sin to complete the sacrificial requirements of the law. He did not abolish the law but He fulfilled it by becoming the sacrifice. The problem is that much of the church has bought Satan’s lies that they are still under the law and not under grace. Because the church has believed that, they begin judging according to the law and not grace. That is where you get this BS that has come out toward “sinners.” I believe that the Christians lash out because they claim to have the answers and in many cases they feel more condemned and depressed than people who don’t believe in Jesus. How is that the “good news?”
The message of the Gospel looses its attraction when you take power out of it. If we as the church began loving the people we are trying to reach and we got free ourselves, than maybe sharing Jesus wouldn’t be so difficult. Many of the laws of the Jews did not come from God, but were created by the leaders of the church. For instance, when Jesus healed the man on the Sabbath, many objected because it violated the law. When Jesus spoke to the woman at the well that was a violation of the law. When touched the leper, He was violating the law. When He went in to the house of a sick woman and took her by the hand to heal her, He violated the law. Jesus fulfilled the law in that He became sin for us to purchase us from the law of sin and death. So, I think this conversation should be about love, not tolerance. It is not to Christians credit that they use such hateful language in the name of Jesus. In my opinion, they only use such language because they don’t know their God very well. If they did, they would try loving them and giving them a hug and allowing that love to show something worth living for.

John & Kristi

]]> By: Donny Pauling http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2006/11/16/selfish-motivation-perhaps/comment-page-1/#comment-541 Donny Pauling Thu, 16 Nov 2006 22:44:16 +0000 http://donnysramblings.wordpress.com/2006/11/16/selfish-motivation-perhaps/#comment-541 "Acceptance as is"<br /><br />Great wording. Thanks, Jeff. “Acceptance as is”

Great wording. Thanks, Jeff.

]]> By: Jeff http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2006/11/16/selfish-motivation-perhaps/comment-page-1/#comment-540 Jeff Thu, 16 Nov 2006 22:19:53 +0000 http://donnysramblings.wordpress.com/2006/11/16/selfish-motivation-perhaps/#comment-540 "Homosexuals, for instance, should be treated with much more tolerance than the men in the church who cheat on their wives or lust for the teenagers in the youth group."<br /><br />Tolerance, dunno. Acceptance as is, absolutely.<br /><br />BTW, can you guys get through that huge post on John's blog? I'm trying to read through it and it is just SO disjointed, to the point of unrecognizable. “Homosexuals, for instance, should be treated with much more tolerance than the men in the church who cheat on their wives or lust for the teenagers in the youth group.”

Tolerance, dunno. Acceptance as is, absolutely.

BTW, can you guys get through that huge post on John’s blog? I’m trying to read through it and it is just SO disjointed, to the point of unrecognizable.

]]> By: Donny Pauling http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2006/11/16/selfish-motivation-perhaps/comment-page-1/#comment-539 Donny Pauling Thu, 16 Nov 2006 22:05:09 +0000 http://donnysramblings.wordpress.com/2006/11/16/selfish-motivation-perhaps/#comment-539 For reference, <a href="http://www.donnysramblings.com/2006/11/ted-haggard-and-christian-response.html" rel="nofollow">here is the Ted Haggard piece I mentioned in that last comment</a>.<br /><br />And <a href="http://www.donnysramblings.com/2006/10/controversial-already-sorry-i-have-to.html" rel="nofollow">here is a piece I wrote about homosexuals</a>. For reference, here is the Ted Haggard piece I mentioned in that last comment.

And here is a piece I wrote about homosexuals.

]]> By: Donny Pauling http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2006/11/16/selfish-motivation-perhaps/comment-page-1/#comment-538 Donny Pauling Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:59:18 +0000 http://donnysramblings.wordpress.com/2006/11/16/selfish-motivation-perhaps/#comment-538 David,<br /><br />What you wrote goes along with some of the opinions I voiced when writing about Ted Haggard. In the examples you cite, Jesus' intolerance is aimed toward "believers" at the time (the Pharisees). Towards the lost, he was quite tolerant and led by example.<br /><br />Through the years, Christians have lost sight of that example. Instead they are lenient towards fellow Christians, and quick to damn the lost to hell. <br /><br />Homosexuals, for instance, should be treated with much more tolerance than the men in the church who cheat on their wives or lust for the teenagers in the youth group. David,

What you wrote goes along with some of the opinions I voiced when writing about Ted Haggard. In the examples you cite, Jesus’ intolerance is aimed toward “believers” at the time (the Pharisees). Towards the lost, he was quite tolerant and led by example.

Through the years, Christians have lost sight of that example. Instead they are lenient towards fellow Christians, and quick to damn the lost to hell.

Homosexuals, for instance, should be treated with much more tolerance than the men in the church who cheat on their wives or lust for the teenagers in the youth group.

]]> By: David Louis Harter http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2006/11/16/selfish-motivation-perhaps/comment-page-1/#comment-537 David Louis Harter Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:48:26 +0000 http://donnysramblings.wordpress.com/2006/11/16/selfish-motivation-perhaps/#comment-537 The person who is grounded in faith, has convictions, and speaks out to expose and reprove error (Col. 1: 23, I Cor. 15: 58, Eph. 5: 10, 11) is often charged with intolerance! <br /><br />The charge presupposed we are to be unconditionally and without qualification tolerant. <br /><br />Jesus was tolerant in matters morally and doctrinally indifferent. The Pharisees were very concerned and intolerant at Jesus' disciples plucking and eating corn on the Sabbath. However, Jesus was tolerant (Matt. 12: 1-8). The Pharisees were also very intolerant regarding Jesus' disciples eating without "washing." Jesus, on the other hand, was tolerant (Mk. 7: 1-13).<br /><br />Jesus was intolerant. The casual reader of the New Testament has observed many instances of Jesus being intolerant and outspoken. In the foregoing cases regarding the Sabbath and the washing of hands, Jesus was intolerant with those who bound their traditions (Matt. 12: 1-8, Mk. 7: 1-13). The most wonderful sermon ever delivered is the Sermon on the Mount (Matt. 5-7). This sermon actually is an expose of Phariseeism. Jesus expressed much intolerance and was very plain and outspoken (Matt. 5: 20, 27, 6: 1-8).<br /><br />Upon closer examination one sees that when Jesus was tolerant, there was no sin involved, when Jesus was intolerant, sin was involved. Christians are to mimic Christ (I Pet. 2: 21). Hence, in matters not involving sin, the Christian is tolerant; but in matters involving a violation of God's laws, the Christian must be intolerant. God's word is also the standard to determine right and wrong - not emotions or what is politically correct (Gal. 2: 14). The person who is grounded in faith, has convictions, and speaks out to expose and reprove error (Col. 1: 23, I Cor. 15: 58, Eph. 5: 10, 11) is often charged with intolerance!

The charge presupposed we are to be unconditionally and without qualification tolerant.

Jesus was tolerant in matters morally and doctrinally indifferent. The Pharisees were very concerned and intolerant at Jesus’ disciples plucking and eating corn on the Sabbath. However, Jesus was tolerant (Matt. 12: 1-8). The Pharisees were also very intolerant regarding Jesus’ disciples eating without “washing.” Jesus, on the other hand, was tolerant (Mk. 7: 1-13).

Jesus was intolerant. The casual reader of the New Testament has observed many instances of Jesus being intolerant and outspoken. In the foregoing cases regarding the Sabbath and the washing of hands, Jesus was intolerant with those who bound their traditions (Matt. 12: 1-8, Mk. 7: 1-13). The most wonderful sermon ever delivered is the Sermon on the Mount (Matt. 5-7). This sermon actually is an expose of Phariseeism. Jesus expressed much intolerance and was very plain and outspoken (Matt. 5: 20, 27, 6: 1-8).

Upon closer examination one sees that when Jesus was tolerant, there was no sin involved, when Jesus was intolerant, sin was involved. Christians are to mimic Christ (I Pet. 2: 21). Hence, in matters not involving sin, the Christian is tolerant; but in matters involving a violation of God’s laws, the Christian must be intolerant. God’s word is also the standard to determine right and wrong – not emotions or what is politically correct (Gal. 2: 14).

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