Home > Caden, Children, Donny Pauling > Spare the Rod. Spoil the Child.

Spare the Rod. Spoil the Child.

Today we celebrate the birth of my son. Caden won’t actually turn 7 until tomorrow morning, but his party is this afternoon.

This morning as I was preparing for the day I decided to blog a bit about what an amazing child he is and why I believe parenting is the main reason that is the case. I needed a title. “Spare the rod, spoil the child” came to mind. That’s a word-for-word saying my mother used to use, right before she picked up the wooden paddle my father had carved. Mom truly believed that our butts needed to be reddened in order to help teach us right from wrong.

A wooden paddle was used after belts were outlawed following an incident at my grandmother’s house. I’d misbehaved, and dad pulled off his belt to adjust my attitude. He swung and it wrapped around, hitting me in the balls. He felt horrible. After that incident, only solid “rods” were used when administering discipline.

“Spare the rod, spoil the child” was my mother’s summation of a verse in Proverbs. When my own son was born, however, I rephrased her saying:

Spare the rod.
Spoil the child.

As a parent, I see that phrase as two separate commands.

I “spare the rod” and never spank my son. I did so just one time in his life and I will never do so again. It happened so long ago Caden doesn’t even remember it. Sometimes I’ll say something like, “I’m gonna have to wup on you Boy!”, and he laughs at the thought of daddy spanking him. It’s just not something that ever happens, and he knows it never will.

I “spoil the child” with love. I’ve never once raised my voice to him, and I’ve never let him hear the words “because I said so” escape my mouth when he asks “Why?”. Instead, I tell him “why” so that he understands.

Don’t get me wrong, I do not feel mistreated in the slightest by my own parents, but I can honestly say I learned nothing positive from my mother’s yelling and spankings. Does anyone truly have a change of heart if they obey out of fear? I don’t think so.

Caden is a fantastic child. Is he perfect? Of course not. Only one perfect human existed in all of history. But Caden is so well behaved his teachers frequently comment on it, as do others who spend a little time around him.

My heart burst in my chest when I received one of the verbal reports given to his mother by his Kindergarten teacher last year. Caden, she said, has a habit of putting his arm around crying children on the playground and walking them to the teacher. He tries to comfort them.

This year, in first grade, his teacher recently told Wendy (my ex-wife) that during reading time, when other children mess up while reading aloud and most of the other children laugh and snicker, Caden doesn’t do so. He simply doesn’t find it acceptable to ridicule others.

I was bragging about him to Pastor Bill Giovannetti. We were in Bill’s home and several children were present. Not 5 minutes after telling the Pastor about those two incidents I just shared with you the children came tearing into the room, being chased by a “monster” in the form of an adult. One little girl tripped and fell. Rather than hurdle over her and continue running, Caden stopped to ask if she was okay. The Pastor noticed and commented about it to me. I’m surprised my shirt didn’t tear as my chest expanded with pride.

It just makes sense to get rid of violence and yelling when dealing with children. Let me get into your face, screaming, and you tell me how that makes you feel. If I don’t like something you’ve done, let me hit you. Does that make you want to cooperate with me?

Children feel no differently. The only thing yelling and spanking accomplishes is to instill fear and anger, and as stated before, fear does not change hearts. It hardens them. Spanking and yelling results in children who hit others and yell at people when they’re upset.

When correcting Caden, I get down on one knee and look him in the eye. I speak in a loving tone and tell him “why” he should do something differently. I make sure what I’m saying makes sense to him, which is why “because I said so” has no place in my vocabulary. That saying, my friends, is a cop-out used by parents who are too lazy to put in the work required of them when raising a child. Work that actually results in LESS work down the road. If the work is put in while they’re young and they UNDERSTAND why things must be certain ways, their behavior changes. They aren’t confused. They understand for themselves why things must operate by certain rules.

If we’re in public, or in front of others, I pick Caden up and hold him in my arms as I whisper in his ear about any behaviors he needs to change. There is no point whatsoever in embarrassing him. After all, I am the adult. He is the child. I am the one expected to have enough brain power to correct my child in a loving non-violent manner (which includes refraining from yelling or using bad attitudes).

In return, he obeys out of love and respect, not out of fear.

Despite the fact that we divorced several years ago, Caden’s mother and I talk to each other daily. We want to be on the same page in matters relating to Caden. We feed off of each other. She spends much more time with Caden than I do, but we discuss nearly every aspect of parenting that arises. She’s the one doing almost all of the work with our son. I simply get to follow the same parenting guidelines while he’s with me.

We all spend time together a few times per month. Instead of fighting about our own differences, as divorced people often do, we try as hard as we can to remember that our son is much more important than petty disagreements we may have with each other. Most of the time we succeed. If we do happen to bicker, Caden is quick to let me know Mom is always right. He loves sticking up for her.

My dad has been raising my brother’s daughter. She’s almost a year younger than my son and has lived with my dad and step-mother for a few years now. Some of the most flattering compliments I’ve ever received are when my dad asks my opinion on parenting issues. He sees how well behaved a child Caden is and respects the parenting decisions we’ve been making while raising him. It’s really cool to be able to compare parenting notes with one’s own parents.

Caden, my son… I love you so very much. Happy 7th birthday, buddy!

PS: after a previous blog entry one reader commented via email that he/she was proud of the parent I’ve become since surrendering my life to God. Let me assure you, I have always been a very good father, long before surrendering my life to God. Let’s get that straight. :)

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  • Donny Pauling

    By the way, the site that I mentioned in that last comment I posted is Landoverbaptist.org. It’s very apparent the site was written by people who greatly hate Christians. Even so, if read for “what it’s worth” it does demonstrate how taking everything in the Bible “literally” is not only impossible, but ridiculous. Jesus himself spoke in parables much of the time. The Bible is a guide. To get the most out of it we need to look at the context of the time in which certain passages were written. Most of us don’t do that.Here are more of those “quizzes”:The Role of Women“Bible Logic”The Plight of Women“Bible Fact Quiz”“The Wrath of God”“Bible Sex Quiz”How God Spots a ChristianSee what I mean? Not everything is intended to be taken so literally.

  • Donny Pauling

    By the way, the site that I mentioned in that last comment I posted is Landoverbaptist.org.

    It’s very apparent the site was written by people who greatly hate Christians.

    Even so, if read for “what it’s worth” it does demonstrate how taking everything in the Bible “literally” is not only impossible, but ridiculous. Jesus himself spoke in parables much of the time.

    The Bible is a guide. To get the most out of it we need to look at the context of the time in which certain passages were written.

    Most of us don’t do that.

    Here are more of those “quizzes”:

    The Role of Women

    “Bible Logic”

    The Plight of Women

    “Bible Fact Quiz”

    “The Wrath of God”

    “Bible Sex Quiz”

    How God Spots a Christian

    See what I mean?

    Not everything is intended to be taken so literally.

  • Jeff

    Well, I can. I’m just saying that it takes time and it’s hard (at best) to do over the intertron.

  • Jeff

    Well, I can. I’m just saying that it takes time and it’s hard (at best) to do over the intertron.

  • Randy

    according to the US gov’t the fair wage for a slave is $5.65 an hour less the gov’t's share, of course. I’m not a parent and I have very little desire to be one because of the ever so tough decisions you all have to make. Witness this, by condoning corporal punishment you are telling people who do not think as carefully as some of the folks here obviously do about the subject, that beating their child is ok. In Wallmart, a packed Wallmart, a woman was observed smacking her child, hard enough across the face to turn the child’s head. Apparently the frustrated parent was unable to make her corrective point with the child, because even though two people from inside the store were pursuing the woman and child, she managed to get a shot to both of the child’s ears before bolting through the clothing racks and disappearing down another aisle and out of the store.Now perhaps you child beaters wouldn’t intentionally condone this behavior, and would only spank your child on the bottom, their are children out there who’s parents behavior is being reinforced by your willingness to publically state, beat your children, God says it’s ok. ungodly,Randy

  • Randy

    according to the US gov’t the fair wage for a slave is $5.65 an hour less the gov’t's share, of course.

    I’m not a parent and I have very little desire to be one because of the ever so tough decisions you all have to make.

    Witness this, by condoning corporal punishment you are telling people who do not think as carefully as some of the folks here obviously do about the subject, that beating their child is ok.

    In Wallmart, a packed Wallmart, a woman was observed smacking her child, hard enough across the face to turn the child’s head. Apparently the frustrated parent was unable to make her corrective point with the child, because even though two people from inside the store were pursuing the woman and child, she managed to get a shot to both of the child’s ears before bolting through the clothing racks and disappearing down another aisle and out of the store.

    Now perhaps you child beaters wouldn’t intentionally condone this behavior, and would only spank your child on the bottom, their are children out there who’s parents behavior is being reinforced by your willingness to publically state, beat your children, God says it’s ok.

    ungodly,

    Randy

  • Donny Pauling

    Randy,You make a very very good point. Thanks for your input.- Donny -

  • Donny Pauling

    Randy,

    You make a very very good point. Thanks for your input.

    - Donny -

  • Owen

    Donny,Just because people have misused parts of scripture does not give us license to disregard parts or especially the whole thing. We need to take it in its appropriate context. And there does not seem to be any miscontextualizing of the timeless Proverbs.As I’d said before, if some people choose not to spank their children, and they “are convinced in their own mind” that this is appropriate, that is fine. Romans leaves license for us to make such decisions (14:5). Likewise, though, parents who wisely implement an occasional swat should not be lambasted.And that’s saying nothing of the crafty children. That the worst thing they’re going to get if they misbehave is just a talking to … or time out? Again, that may work for some. But others may well be able to outlast the longest time-out and lecture, and other forms of punishment and correction should be at the parents’ disposal.

  • Owen

    Donny,

    Just because people have misused parts of scripture does not give us license to disregard parts or especially the whole thing. We need to take it in its appropriate context. And there does not seem to be any miscontextualizing of the timeless Proverbs.

    As I’d said before, if some people choose not to spank their children, and they “are convinced in their own mind” that this is appropriate, that is fine. Romans leaves license for us to make such decisions (14:5). Likewise, though, parents who wisely implement an occasional swat should not be lambasted.

    And that’s saying nothing of the crafty children. That the worst thing they’re going to get if they misbehave is just a talking to … or time out? Again, that may work for some. But others may well be able to outlast the longest time-out and lecture, and other forms of punishment and correction should be at the parents’ disposal.

  • Dusty

    Man, I can’t believe you guys are calling people, who lovingly discipline their children, child beaters. I agree that some people should be prosecuted for how they “discipline” their kids. But calling me a “child beater” because I choose to swat my child on the leg or bottom is going a little too far. I find it odd that the people doing most of the name calling and bashing are the people that supposedly are sticking up for children’s rights not to be spanked. That’s a really good thing to teach them, “Hey, little Johnny or Susie, we’re not gonna spank you, but we want you to know that if someone disagrees with you, it’s okay to disrespect them and call them names. And don’t worry, the most you will have to endure is a stern talking to from us.” I agree with some of what you guys say. If one does decide to spank their kids, it should not be done in public. Heck, if my mom or dad had to tell me in public, “Wait until we get home, you’re gonna get it.” in a hushed voice…that was twice as bad as just getting the spanking because they were playing mind games with me now. Not only did I have the agony of the impending spanking, but I had the spanking itself to deal with.Like I said earlier, we just have to agree to disagree. I’m not using the Bible to give me the okay to spank my child. I’m doing what I think is best for my child. Just like, Donny, you are doing what you think is best for your child. No one is trying to tell you to spank your child. On the contrary, I think it’s great that you don’t have to or choose not to spank your child. Randy and Jan, just a tip, your arguments don’t hold much water when you resort to name calling. You kinda lose your momentum and any credibility.

  • Dusty

    Man, I can’t believe you guys are calling people, who lovingly discipline their children, child beaters. I agree that some people should be prosecuted for how they “discipline” their kids. But calling me a “child beater” because I choose to swat my child on the leg or bottom is going a little too far. I find it odd that the people doing most of the name calling and bashing are the people that supposedly are sticking up for children’s rights not to be spanked. That’s a really good thing to teach them, “Hey, little Johnny or Susie, we’re not gonna spank you, but we want you to know that if someone disagrees with you, it’s okay to disrespect them and call them names. And don’t worry, the most you will have to endure is a stern talking to from us.”

    I agree with some of what you guys say. If one does decide to spank their kids, it should not be done in public. Heck, if my mom or dad had to tell me in public, “Wait until we get home, you’re gonna get it.” in a hushed voice…that was twice as bad as just getting the spanking because they were playing mind games with me now. Not only did I have the agony of the impending spanking, but I had the spanking itself to deal with.

    Like I said earlier, we just have to agree to disagree. I’m not using the Bible to give me the okay to spank my child. I’m doing what I think is best for my child. Just like, Donny, you are doing what you think is best for your child. No one is trying to tell you to spank your child. On the contrary, I think it’s great that you don’t have to or choose not to spank your child.

    Randy and Jan, just a tip, your arguments don’t hold much water when you resort to name calling. You kinda lose your momentum and any credibility.

  • andy

    Whoa, there is quite a debate going on here. Firstly, I am so glad your son was brought up to be such a great young man through your spanking-less style. In many cases, this may work. If it does, there is no reason to spank your child. Not all children are the same. I believe very strongly that spankings are necessary for some kids. They don’t teach the kids that violence solves problems if approached properly. They are completely worthless if the reason for the discipline is not completely known to the child. For some kids, this pain is a good way to let them know that negative actions have negative consequences.You have spent a great deal of time around your son, and I don’t doubt that you and your son’s mother have figured out the best way to treat your son. You should be open to the fact that you don’t know what is best for other peoples sons and daughters.

  • andy

    Whoa, there is quite a debate going on here.

    Firstly, I am so glad your son was brought up to be such a great young man through your spanking-less style. In many cases, this may work. If it does, there is no reason to spank your child.

    Not all children are the same. I believe very strongly that spankings are necessary for some kids. They don’t teach the kids that violence solves problems if approached properly. They are completely worthless if the reason for the discipline is not completely known to the child. For some kids, this pain is a good way to let them know that negative actions have negative consequences.

    You have spent a great deal of time around your son, and I don’t doubt that you and your son’s mother have figured out the best way to treat your son. You should be open to the fact that you don’t know what is best for other peoples sons and daughters.

  • Oceanskaterhttp://unveiledface

    Hi, Donny,There are certainly portions of Levitical law that we don’t follow anymore. Why not? The case is always that there is something in the New Testament or in the words of Jesus that address either the specific law or the theme behind the law.Take, for instance, issues of being clean or unclean (this applies to food, fabrics, menstruating women, and so on). Jesus said this in Mark 7:18-19:”Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him ‘unclean’? 19For it doesn’t go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods “clean.”) Then you can read in Acts 11 all about God speaking to Peter about the same issue.I could cite quite a few examples, but I think it would make a lot more sense for you to sit down with a Christian you trust, who is knowledgable about this stuff, and discuss these issues. All of the Bible is relevent to our lives and has wisdom for us. And I believe it is all the literal word of God. If it’s not all God’s Word, how do we decide what to pick and choose as truth?That doesn’t mean I take everything at face value. For instance, just because the Psalms say I can rest in the shadow of God’s wing doesn’t make Him a bird. Also, just because something happened in the Bible doesn’t mean it’s a mandate for my life. Every passage in the Bible is either descriptive or prescriptive. We need to use wisdom in deciding what is what. And we always need to look at the Bible as a whole. If I’m confused about one verse or chapter of the Bible, what can I read in other chapters of the Bible that talk about this topic and could possibly clarify this for me? Maybe that’s helpful.

  • Oceanskaterhttp://unveiledfaces.org/wordpress/

    Hi, Donny,

    There are certainly portions of Levitical law that we don’t follow anymore. Why not? The case is always that there is something in the New Testament or in the words of Jesus that address either the specific law or the theme behind the law.

    Take, for instance, issues of being clean or unclean (this applies to food, fabrics, menstruating women, and so on). Jesus said this in Mark 7:18-19:

    “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him ‘unclean’? 19For it doesn’t go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods “clean.”)

    Then you can read in Acts 11 all about God speaking to Peter about the same issue.

    I could cite quite a few examples, but I think it would make a lot more sense for you to sit down with a Christian you trust, who is knowledgable about this stuff, and discuss these issues. All of the Bible is relevent to our lives and has wisdom for us. And I believe it is all the literal word of God. If it’s not all God’s Word, how do we decide what to pick and choose as truth?

    That doesn’t mean I take everything at face value. For instance, just because the Psalms say I can rest in the shadow of God’s wing doesn’t make Him a bird. Also, just because something happened in the Bible doesn’t mean it’s a mandate for my life. Every passage in the Bible is either descriptive or prescriptive. We need to use wisdom in deciding what is what. And we always need to look at the Bible as a whole.

    If I’m confused about one verse or chapter of the Bible, what can I read in other chapters of the Bible that talk about this topic and could possibly clarify this for me?

    Maybe that’s helpful.

  • riggy fargus

    “See what I mean? There are many things that are “in the Bible” that we choose not to take as literally as we take those things that fit with our own goals. Comments?” Donny -Context is so critical. There isn’t a Christian in the world that believes we should be obeying all of the levitical laws. The bible is explicit about them being obsolete. I don’t think you are being intellectually honest here – I don’t really believe you think those verses in Proverbs are obsolete. And I don’t think you are willing to study those passages and ask God to work his truth in your heart. I think you’ve made up your mind and done it in the flesh. We can disagree on all sorts of things, but if you are coming to me as a Christian and are that quick to blow off the Bible I am going to have a real hard time respecting your opinion.

  • riggy fargus

    “See what I mean? There are many things that are “in the Bible” that we choose not to take as literally as we take those things that fit with our own goals.

    Comments?”

    Donny -

    Context is so critical. There isn’t a Christian in the world that believes we should be obeying all of the levitical laws. The bible is explicit about them being obsolete. I don’t think you are being intellectually honest here – I don’t really believe you think those verses in Proverbs are obsolete. And I don’t think you are willing to study those passages and ask God to work his truth in your heart. I think you’ve made up your mind and done it in the flesh. We can disagree on all sorts of things, but if you are coming to me as a Christian and are that quick to blow off the Bible I am going to have a real hard time respecting your opinion.

  • Rickhttp://www.anotherstorm.co

    You can use the “rod” without ever laying a finger on your children. To me, sparing the rod means failing to hold them accountable for their actions and to teach them how to live. There’s a big difference between that and just pounding on them.

  • Rickhttp://www.anotherstorm.com

    You can use the “rod” without ever laying a finger on your children. To me, sparing the rod means failing to hold them accountable for their actions and to teach them how to live. There’s a big difference between that and just pounding on them.

  • Daniel Mendezwww.myspace.com/b

    Dear Donny, I’ve been hoping to respond to this for some time, but other things have occurred till now. I can appreciate your emphasis on speaking to a child over spanking. Certainly training after the ‘60’s pushed this concept. Reasoning with a child seems more useful. Your son seems exceptional and I would certainly by no means, based on your descriptions, see a need to resort to spanking. However, if the core result of your father’s discipline gives you this conclusion, there is a notion that whatever one lacked in their childhood, they tend toward over compensating in the raising of their own children. As in, if I didn’t get gifts, I’d make sure my child got more, if I was beaten, especially by an angry parent, then I certainly won’t do that. We do this sometimes, or the opposite, we do exactly as was done to us. Either way, it’s wrong. There is a place in the center where truth dwells.My father though passive, disciplined me, but with love. He’d often hold me or show me love afterward. Did it contradict his command, no, it instead showed me that his command had to be followed, but that he still loved me…and inevitably wants the best for me. Did he always work this way, no, he wasn’t perfect, but he did his best and am I glad he did. Did I turn out the model child, no, but when I wandered away for a time from God and good judgement, who was there waiting for me from afar, when the prodigal came home…he did. It was my mom on the other hand who was the hard one. If it wasn’t her way, then it was no way. That of course she took from her dad who she unknowingly emulated, and he was a military man.Anyway, I say all this because I believe that discipline in whatever form it is, should match or equal to the task at hand. Some parents will strike their kid in the face in front of everyone, to their child’s shame, others, even worse, will beat them to death, over things that have no value, especially eternal ones. Probably a more precise approach you are reaching for while explaining this violence to avoid is found in Ephesians 6:4 “Fathers, do not irritate and provoke your children to anger [do not exasperate them to resentment], but rear them [tenderly] in the training and discipline and the counsel and admonition of the Lord.” Amplified Bible But temper it with these versus found in Hebrews 12:5-15“And have you [completely] forgotten the divine word of appeal and encouragement in which you are reasoned with and addressed as sons? My son, do not think lightly or scorn to submit to the correction and discipline of the Lord, nor lose courage and give up and faint when you are reproved or corrected by Him; For the Lord corrects and disciplines everyone whom He loves, and He punishes, even scourges, every son whom He accepts and welcomes to His heart and cherishes. You must submit to and endure [correction] for discipline; God is dealing with you as with sons. For what son is there whom his father does not [thus] train and correct and discipline? Now if you are exempt from correction and left without discipline in which all [of God's children] share, then you are illegitimate offspring and not true sons [at all]. Moreover, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we yielded [to them] and respected [them for training us]. Shall we not much more cheerfully submit to the Father of spirits and so [truly] live? For [our earthly fathers] disciplined us for only a short period of time and chastised us as seemed proper and good to them; but He disciplines us for our certain good, that we may become sharers in His own holiness. For the time being no discipline brings joy, but seems grievous and painful; but afterwards it yields a peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it [a harvest of fruit which consists in righteousness--in conformity to God's will in purpose, thought, and action, resulting in right living and right standing with God]. So then, brace up and reinvigorate and set right your slackened and weakened and drooping hands and strengthen your feeble and palsied and tottering knees, And cut through and make firm and plain and smooth, straight paths for your feet [yes, make them safe and upright and happy paths that go in the right direction], so that the lame and halting [limbs] may not be put out of joint, but rather may be cured. Strive to live in peace with everybody and pursue that consecration and holiness without which no one will [ever] see the Lord. Exercise foresight and be on the watch to look [after one another], to see that no one falls back from and fails to secure God’s grace (His unmerited favor and spiritual blessing), in order that no root of resentment (rancor, bitterness, or hatred) shoots forth and causes trouble and bitter torment, and the many become contaminated and defiled by it—” Amplified BibleIs there a contradiction? No. If discipline as described here is violence against the recipient, then he’s contradicting himself, to then say to strive and live in peace with everybody. There must be a core center that Christ calls us to that is not all the way one way when we say to discipline, or all the way the other way when we are told to be at peace with everyone. In fact, we are encouraged to not allow a root of bitterness to creep in and defile us. If a parent wrongfully disciplines or applies incorrect means and that without love (I think everything we do without love is wrong [1 Cor. 13] as Christians anyway), then certainly we will exasperate our children to anger. So figuring this all out completely requires a lot more work than we thought. Discipline but without anger, correction in love. It takes a lot more discipline in our lives as parents than to fly off the handle with our kids. But then we must correct by scripture, the product of our parents that we’ve become. One thing I have found, is that while some children may possess similar traits, no two children are the same and thus, correction should be dealt with accordingly.Some years ago, Christian Psychologist and radio person, Dr. James Dobson wrote two books, “Dare to Discipline” and “the Strong Willed Child”. These tackle much of these issues and subject matter you speak of, but as you can see from the one title, there are kids with strong wills and there are different sets of ways to deal with that, without breaking their spirits.I think it is too simple to think that discipline, as a form of violence on a child (unless of course we’re talking about child abuse) is the reason for all the mess in the world. The scripture speaks about the heart of man being wicked. While there are reasons why, or motivations why people will commit violent acts, and everyone is responsible for their own actions, even if their upbringings were a mess, still the ultimate cause of so much chaos is the wickedness in our hearts. Did Cain kill Abel because Adam and Eve incorrectly disciplined him? No, he was jealous that God favored Abel’s sacrifice over his. Thus, the first murder, and so on. Everyone has a “garden of Eden” experience, where we are presented with the choice between this way and that way. God spoke to Cain about how evil was at the door of his heart and he was to conquer it or it would conquer him. He gave in to it and killed his brother.As per your secondary comment about what is reinforced for children as they grow up, on a lighter note, I remember hearing Anthony Campolo speak of a professor who pushed the idea of parents struggling with their kids to learn how to sit on the potty and do #2. Well, this professor goes on to say that with all of the emphasis and pressure on the kids about “what and where to do it’, and “sit there till something happens”. The professor builds up to crescendo, as he then asks; “I ask you, what does the child learn in their life about what they have been so focused on producing…it is the gift. Wha
    t then does the child learn about this gift it has produced on behalf of society, it learns that what it has produced for society…. gets flushed.Anyway, for every incorrect way a father or parents may raise their kids, doing the best they know how, if in fact they have done their best, God spoke to me about this once in my youth. He being the perfect heavenly Father, who knows very well how to discipline His children, still has those who fail and mess up within His fold. So people go wrong because of choices they make, actions they take, wrong thinking that leads to wrong actions…no matter who the parents were and how well or not well they disciplined them. Well, I’ve probably gone way too long on this. I just want to say, that your son probably has a tender heart and doesn’t require heavier discipline, and God bless you for the gift he’s given to you in your son. I leave you with this from Psalms 127:3-5 Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb a reward. As arrows are in the hand of a warrior, so are the children of one’s youth. Happy, blessed, and fortunate is the man whose quiver is filled with them! They will not be put to shame when they speak with their adversaries [in gatherings] at the [city's] gate. Amplified BibleAnd of course, that favorite verse found in Proverbs 13:24 “He who spares his rod [of discipline] hates his son, but he who loves him disciplines diligently and punishes him early.” Amplified BibleI understand and do love you brother.Daniel Mendez

  • Daniel Mendezwww.myspace.com/broadcastpraise

    Dear Donny,
    I’ve been hoping to respond to this for some time, but other things have occurred till now. I can appreciate your emphasis on speaking to a child over spanking. Certainly training after the ‘60’s pushed this concept. Reasoning with a child seems more useful.

    Your son seems exceptional and I would certainly by no means, based on your descriptions, see a need to resort to spanking. However, if the core result of your father’s discipline gives you this conclusion, there is a notion that whatever one lacked in their childhood, they tend toward over compensating in the raising of their own children. As in, if I didn’t get gifts, I’d make sure my child got more, if I was beaten, especially by an angry parent, then I certainly won’t do that. We do this sometimes, or the opposite, we do exactly as was done to us. Either way, it’s wrong. There is a place in the center where truth dwells.

    My father though passive, disciplined me, but with love. He’d often hold me or show me love afterward. Did it contradict his command, no, it instead showed me that his command had to be followed, but that he still loved me…and inevitably wants the best for me. Did he always work this way, no, he wasn’t perfect, but he did his best and am I glad he did. Did I turn out the model child, no, but when I wandered away for a time from God and good judgement, who was there waiting for me from afar, when the prodigal came home…he did. It was my mom on the other hand who was the hard one. If it wasn’t her way, then it was no way. That of course she took from her dad who she unknowingly emulated, and he was a military man.

    Anyway, I say all this because I believe that discipline in whatever form it is, should match or equal to the task at hand. Some parents will strike their kid in the face in front of everyone, to their child’s shame, others, even worse, will beat them to death, over things that have no value, especially eternal ones. Probably a more precise approach you are reaching for while explaining this violence to avoid is found in Ephesians 6:4
    “Fathers, do not irritate and provoke your children to anger [do not exasperate them to resentment], but rear them [tenderly] in the training and discipline and the counsel and admonition of the Lord.” Amplified Bible
    But temper it with these versus found in Hebrews 12:5-15

    “And have you [completely] forgotten the divine word of appeal and encouragement in which you are reasoned with and addressed as sons? My son, do not think lightly or scorn to submit to the correction and discipline of the Lord, nor lose courage and give up and faint when you are reproved or corrected by Him;
    For the Lord corrects and disciplines everyone whom He loves, and He punishes, even scourges, every son whom He accepts and welcomes to His heart and cherishes.
    You must submit to and endure [correction] for discipline; God is dealing with you as with sons. For what son is there whom his father does not [thus] train and correct and discipline?
    Now if you are exempt from correction and left without discipline in which all [of God's children] share, then you are illegitimate offspring and not true sons [at all].
    Moreover, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we yielded [to them] and respected [them for training us]. Shall we not much more cheerfully submit to the Father of spirits and so [truly] live?
    For [our earthly fathers] disciplined us for only a short period of time and chastised us as seemed proper and good to them; but He disciplines us for our certain good, that we may become sharers in His own holiness.
    For the time being no discipline brings joy, but seems grievous and painful; but afterwards it yields a peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it [a harvest of fruit which consists in righteousness--in conformity to God's will in purpose, thought, and action, resulting in right living and right standing with God].
    So then, brace up and reinvigorate and set right your slackened and weakened and drooping hands and strengthen your feeble and palsied and tottering knees,
    And cut through and make firm and plain and smooth, straight paths for your feet [yes, make them safe and upright and happy paths that go in the right direction], so that the lame and halting [limbs] may not be put out of joint, but rather may be cured.
    Strive to live in peace with everybody and pursue that consecration and holiness without which no one will [ever] see the Lord.
    Exercise foresight and be on the watch to look [after one another], to see that no one falls back from and fails to secure God’s grace (His unmerited favor and spiritual blessing), in order that no root of resentment (rancor, bitterness, or hatred) shoots forth and causes trouble and bitter torment, and the many become contaminated and defiled by it—” Amplified Bible
    Is there a contradiction? No. If discipline as described here is violence against the recipient, then he’s contradicting himself, to then say to strive and live in peace with everybody. There must be a core center that Christ calls us to that is not all the way one way when we say to discipline, or all the way the other way when we are told to be at peace with everyone. In fact, we are encouraged to not allow a root of bitterness to creep in and defile us. If a parent wrongfully disciplines or applies incorrect means and that without love (I think everything we do without love is wrong [1 Cor. 13] as Christians anyway), then certainly we will exasperate our children to anger. So figuring this all out completely requires a lot more work than we thought. Discipline but without anger, correction in love. It takes a lot more discipline in our lives as parents than to fly off the handle with our kids. But then we must correct by scripture, the product of our parents that we’ve become. One thing I have found, is that while some children may possess similar traits, no two children are the same and thus, correction should be dealt with accordingly.

    Some years ago, Christian Psychologist and radio person, Dr. James Dobson wrote two books, “Dare to Discipline” and “the Strong Willed Child”. These tackle much of these issues and subject matter you speak of, but as you can see from the one title, there are kids with strong wills and there are different sets of ways to deal with that, without breaking their spirits.

    I think it is too simple to think that discipline, as a form of violence on a child (unless of course we’re talking about child abuse) is the reason for all the mess in the world. The scripture speaks about the heart of man being wicked. While there are reasons why, or motivations why people will commit violent acts, and everyone is responsible for their own actions, even if their upbringings were a mess, still the ultimate cause of so much chaos is the wickedness in our hearts. Did Cain kill Abel because Adam and Eve incorrectly disciplined him? No, he was jealous that God favored Abel’s sacrifice over his. Thus, the first murder, and so on. Everyone has a “garden of Eden” experience, where we are presented with the choice between this way and that way. God spoke to Cain about how evil was at the door of his heart and he was to conquer it or it would conquer him. He gave in to it and killed his brother.

    As per your secondary comment about what is reinforced for children as they grow up, on a lighter note, I remember hearing Anthony Campolo speak of a professor who pushed the idea of parents struggling with their kids to learn how to sit on the potty and do #2. Well, this professor goes on to say that with all of the emphasis and pressure on the kids about “what and where to do it’, and “sit there till something happens”. The professor builds up to crescendo, as he then asks; “I ask you, what does the child learn in their life about what they have been so focused on producing…it is the gift. Wha
    t then does the child learn about this gift it has produced on behalf of society, it learns that what it has produced for society…. gets flushed.

    Anyway, for every incorrect way a father or parents may raise their kids, doing the best they know how, if in fact they have done their best, God spoke to me about this once in my youth. He being the perfect heavenly Father, who knows very well how to discipline His children, still has those who fail and mess up within His fold. So people go wrong because of choices they make, actions they take, wrong thinking that leads to wrong actions…no matter who the parents were and how well or not well they disciplined them.

    Well, I’ve probably gone way too long on this. I just want to say, that your son probably has a tender heart and doesn’t require heavier discipline, and God bless you for the gift he’s given to you in your son. I leave you with this from Psalms 127:3-5

    Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb a reward.
    As arrows are in the hand of a warrior, so are the children of one’s youth.
    Happy, blessed, and fortunate is the man whose quiver is filled with them! They will not be put to shame when they speak with their adversaries [in gatherings] at the [city's] gate. Amplified Bible
    And of course, that favorite verse found in Proverbs 13:24
    “He who spares his rod [of discipline] hates his son, but he who loves him disciplines diligently and punishes him early.” Amplified Bible

    I understand and do love you brother.
    Daniel Mendez

  • Anonymous

    People who quote the Bible to justify hitting other people are ignoring everything that we have learned about child development and parenting since the time of Solomon. Besides, Why would anyone take parenting advice from solomon: He got pleasure from the torture of people. Besides, according to many Christians, the suggested law of the old testiment no longer needs to be upheld. This is why we frown upon the stoning of people and why we can eat pork. So why do the same Christians advocate spanking? I’ll tell you why. It is because they are obsessed with control. (Like James Dobson, and other’s like him ) Obviously, they have a problem, but can’t fathom the reality of their problem. There is nothing loving about hitting or causing someone else to have pain. From, Liam_Turley@hotmail.com

  • Anonymous

    People who quote the Bible to justify hitting other people are ignoring everything that we have learned about child development and parenting since the time of Solomon. Besides, Why would anyone take parenting advice from solomon: He got pleasure from the torture of people. Besides, according to many Christians, the suggested law of the old testiment no longer needs to be upheld. This is why we frown upon the stoning of people and why we can eat pork. So why do the same Christians advocate spanking? I’ll tell you why. It is because they are obsessed with control. (Like James Dobson, and other’s like him ) Obviously, they have a problem, but can’t fathom the reality of their problem. There is nothing loving about hitting or causing someone else to have pain.
    From, Liam_Turley@hotmail.com

  • Donna

    Hey, I just read your article. You make a good point, however you also appear to have only one child. You may find that your next child is nothing like Caden.

    My older sister, younger brother and I were disciplined growing up. While our parents definately weren’t adversed to spanking us, they did try to attain the desired behavior without spanking. My younger brother and I were the types of children who simply knowing we had disappointed our parents was more of a punishment to us than grounding us or spanking….him moreso than I. I remember when he was about 3 or so, he just wouldn’t stay in bed even though it was quite late….both of us have ADHD and bedtime has always been a bit of a struggle. Anyway our mom told him very calmly “you need to stay in this bed for the rest of the night. Don’t get out of bed again until morning.” The next morning he had wet the bed and Mom asked him “didn’t you know you had to go potty” since he was potty trained by then and usually was good at getting up to go at night if needed, and he very innocently said “yes, but you told me not to get out of bed again until morning.” There had been no threat of punishment….no yelling, and no fear on my brother’s part. Simply a child wanting to obey, but a bit confused about what the instructions meant (he’s in his 20′s now and still has a tendency to take everyting someone says litterally).

    I wasn’t quite as quick to want to obey, but I did come along. One thing my dad did do was to always make sure that we understood exactly why we couldn’t do something, or why something needed to be done. If it was a bad program on TV, he would say to turn it off, but once it was off, he’d make sure that we understood why that program wasn’t allowed. That went a long way with me as a child, but I still felt the effect of his belt a few times, but those were my fault as my dad only ever spanked any of us for three things: 1) Lying. There was no warning with this one. 2) Deliberate disobediance (when we knew what we were to do and CHOSE not to do it) 3) repeat offenses after we’ve been told what we should do, and why.

    Our older sister was nothing like us, she continued to be spanked up until she was 16 (mostly for repeat offenses and deliberate disobediance)and finally decided to try things our parent’s way.

    I think my last spanking was probably delieverd sometime when I was 8 or 9, and my brother…..I don’t think he’s been spanked since he was 4 or so. This wasn’t the result of our parents changing the rules or how they responded to us…but it was the result of us children and how we responded to the rules and to our dad talking to us about the rules. A friend of mine often jokes that my brother and I probably watched what happened with our sister and made up our minds that we weren’t going to be put in that position.

    Also my dad was never abusive with spanking. They were always done in our bedrooms so there was privacy. And prior to every spanking, dad would talk with us, remind us why we were being spanked, and offer us the chance to offer any explanation that we thought might change his mind about the punishment (I actually succeeded at this once, and only once when I was late comming home. As it wasn’t the first time, I was going to be spanked, but I told my dad [the truth] that the chain on my bike had broken and I had to walk home rather than ride my bike, thus it took longer. There was no punishment, just a really short talk about perhaps I didn’t want to cut my timming quite that close in the future).

    As for me, when I have kids I will do what works for them. In my own family growing up I have seen that not every kid NEEDS to be spanked to be compliant with the rules….and not every kid will respond to only talking / using logic…and some are right in the middle, wanting to do good, but not able to resist doing wrong without a “reminder”. So I can’t say that I’ll absolutely never spank my children, and I can’t say that spanking is the only right form of discipline.

  • Donna

    Hey, I just read your article. You make a good point, however you also appear to have only one child. You may find that your next child is nothing like Caden.

    My older sister, younger brother and I were disciplined growing up. While our parents definately weren’t adversed to spanking us, they did try to attain the desired behavior without spanking. My younger brother and I were the types of children who simply knowing we had disappointed our parents was more of a punishment to us than grounding us or spanking….him moreso than I. I remember when he was about 3 or so, he just wouldn’t stay in bed even though it was quite late….both of us have ADHD and bedtime has always been a bit of a struggle. Anyway our mom told him very calmly “you need to stay in this bed for the rest of the night. Don’t get out of bed again until morning.” The next morning he had wet the bed and Mom asked him “didn’t you know you had to go potty” since he was potty trained by then and usually was good at getting up to go at night if needed, and he very innocently said “yes, but you told me not to get out of bed again until morning.” There had been no threat of punishment….no yelling, and no fear on my brother’s part. Simply a child wanting to obey, but a bit confused about what the instructions meant (he’s in his 20′s now and still has a tendency to take everyting someone says litterally).

    I wasn’t quite as quick to want to obey, but I did come along. One thing my dad did do was to always make sure that we understood exactly why we couldn’t do something, or why something needed to be done. If it was a bad program on TV, he would say to turn it off, but once it was off, he’d make sure that we understood why that program wasn’t allowed. That went a long way with me as a child, but I still felt the effect of his belt a few times, but those were my fault as my dad only ever spanked any of us for three things: 1) Lying. There was no warning with this one. 2) Deliberate disobediance (when we knew what we were to do and CHOSE not to do it) 3) repeat offenses after we’ve been told what we should do, and why.

    Our older sister was nothing like us, she continued to be spanked up until she was 16 (mostly for repeat offenses and deliberate disobediance)and finally decided to try things our parent’s way.

    I think my last spanking was probably delieverd sometime when I was 8 or 9, and my brother…..I don’t think he’s been spanked since he was 4 or so. This wasn’t the result of our parents changing the rules or how they responded to us…but it was the result of us children and how we responded to the rules and to our dad talking to us about the rules. A friend of mine often jokes that my brother and I probably watched what happened with our sister and made up our minds that we weren’t going to be put in that position.

    Also my dad was never abusive with spanking. They were always done in our bedrooms so there was privacy. And prior to every spanking, dad would talk with us, remind us why we were being spanked, and offer us the chance to offer any explanation that we thought might change his mind about the punishment (I actually succeeded at this once, and only once when I was late comming home. As it wasn’t the first time, I was going to be spanked, but I told my dad [the truth] that the chain on my bike had broken and I had to walk home rather than ride my bike, thus it took longer. There was no punishment, just a really short talk about perhaps I didn’t want to cut my timming quite that close in the future).

    As for me, when I have kids I will do what works for them. In my own family growing up I have seen that not every kid NEEDS to be spanked to be compliant with the rules….and not every kid will respond to only talking / using logic…and some are right in the middle, wanting to do good, but not able to resist doing wrong without a “reminder”. So I can’t say that I’ll absolutely never spank my children, and I can’t say that spanking is the only right form of discipline.

  • Ray

    It’s great that your son is so well behaved. However, it doesn’t mean that your way of raising him is right for every child. Children are different and they require different types of corrections. For some a spanking is needed to get the point across. I was a child that, like your son, wanted to please adults. If they asked me to do something, I’d do it. My brother was the opposite. He needed tough love. He didn’t have much self control or desire to please and got into every kind of trouble. In retrospect he has told my parents that they weren’t hard enough on him. For some children, pleasing adults simply isn’t enough motivation. Don’t generalize from one case what is best for every child.

  • Ray

    It’s great that your son is so well behaved. However, it doesn’t mean that your way of raising him is right for every child. Children are different and they require different types of corrections. For some a spanking is needed to get the point across. I was a child that, like your son, wanted to please adults. If they asked me to do something, I’d do it. My brother was the opposite. He needed tough love. He didn’t have much self control or desire to please and got into every kind of trouble. In retrospect he has told my parents that they weren’t hard enough on him. For some children, pleasing adults simply isn’t enough motivation. Don’t generalize from one case what is best for every child.

  • Ray

    A second comment…. why is it that these days people are so highly opposed to *physical* corrections, when a psychological one can be as bad or worse? To explain what I mean, let me give an example. My friend Brian hangs out with a group of people that includes a married couple, John and Sue. John treats Sue horribly. We were on a hike and she was having breathing problems. John said, “she’s fine”, told her to stop slowing every done and turned his back on her. John will insult and belittle her. I asked Brian, have you ever talked to John about the way he treats Sue? He said no. I said, if John hit Sue, would you do something? Oh, of course, he said. My point is, there is nothing wrong with physical corrections per se. A spanking might be less painful than no internet access for a week. The question to ask is whether it’s a matter of correcting the child’s bad behavior or is the child being abused. A parent can spank or use the strap without being abusive. And a parent can be very abusive without ever laying a hand on the child.

  • Ray

    A second comment…. why is it that these days people are so highly opposed to *physical* corrections, when a psychological one can be as bad or worse? To explain what I mean, let me give an example. My friend Brian hangs out with a group of people that includes a married couple, John and Sue. John treats Sue horribly. We were on a hike and she was having breathing problems. John said, “she’s fine”, told her to stop slowing every done and turned his back on her. John will insult and belittle her. I asked Brian, have you ever talked to John about the way he treats Sue? He said no. I said, if John hit Sue, would you do something? Oh, of course, he said. My point is, there is nothing wrong with physical corrections per se. A spanking might be less painful than no internet access for a week. The question to ask is whether it’s a matter of correcting the child’s bad behavior or is the child being abused. A parent can spank or use the strap without being abusive. And a parent can be very abusive without ever laying a hand on the child.

  • YLF

    All parents that spank thier children are child beaters. All child beaters deserve the death penalty.

  • YLF

    All parents that spank thier children are child beaters. All child beaters deserve the death penalty.

  • http://bryantmaroney.podbean.com/ Seventh day Adventist

    nice post, thanks!