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Bethel Is A Really Weird Church

July 26th, 2007 Donny Pauling Leave a comment Go to comments

I originally wrote this as a comment to this article I found about Bethel Church in Redding, California.

UPDATED JANUARY 21, 2010 TO INCLUDE LINKS TO LOCAL REDDING MEDIA COVERAGE OF BETHEL:

Bethel Church’s Bill Johnson

Bethel burgeons under pastor’s visions of prosperity

Faith healings, dead raising teams part of Bethel experience

Bethel’s ‘signs and wonders’ include angel feathers, gold dust and diamonds

Bill Johnson spoke during a service and addressed these articles – if anyone has a link to that sermon please share it with me so I can put it here too. I think it’s important to hear what he had to say.

Ah, a post on the crazy church in Redding known as Bethel… and a detailed one at that.

First of all, let me paint a little background picture for the record:

I produced porn for 9 years. For the first 3 years of that time I was married and hid it from my now ex-wife, who was devastated when she found out. She found healing at Bethel Church in Redding. She’d tell me things that happened at that church and I’d get angry because it sounded so stupid and ridiculous.

I made fun of her all the time when she’d tell me some of the things the “School of Ministry” students did (she became a 1st year school of ministry student herself). Crazy things happened, supposedly. Like feathers falling from the sky during service…. like the time when the quadriplegic she cared for had her tooth healed (“Donny, I brushed her teeth for her this morning before taking her to church… that gold tooth wasn’t there, I swear to you!”). Like all sorts of other “healings”.

People come from all over the world to attend that church.

Last year I wanted to turn my life over to God and leave porn production. I reached out to Bethel. 4 times. They wouldn’t talk to me. I don’t know why. They wouldn’t return calls. Wendy (my ex) had her sister go directly to leadership and implore them to call me. They didn’t.

I eventually surrendered my life to God on my own. And I decided to check out Bethel.

It’s weird. That’s for sure.

But I felt God there. Very strongly. I decided to follow along on a “treasure hunt” like the one of which you spoke. I was flabbergasted at what happened. I rode along with one of the church’s pastors, in his car, as we drove around Redding. He saw a group of people standing in front of Carl’s Jr and walked up to them. I followed. The people must have thought we were really odd when he said he had “a word” for one woman in the group. He told her that God knew she hadn’t been sleeping well the last few nights and that was all going to stop as of “right now”. He told her other personal things about herself. The whole group started laughing because he was RIGHT ON about everything, including her not sleeping well the last few days.

It was really weird to witness that. I didn’t want to accept it then, and I still don’t now. But I can’t deny it happened.

One night I had a very painful ear ache. In the middle of service it was called out that someone had pain in their ear and God wanted to heal them. I took the chance and stood up. Less than 10 seconds after they started praying, my ear popped and stopped hurting.

It was really weird. But it happened.

I don’t go to that church very often anymore. This past Sunday was the first time in a few months. It weirds me out. I find some of the people odd, and one of their counselors pulled some crap I don’t appreciate at all.

They go way off into la la land on some of their teachings. They talk about things I’ve never heard in church before.

I like facts and am not as into “supernatural” stuff. It doesn’t resolve for me. But after Bethel I sometimes wonder if there’s a whole lot more “supernatural” to God than most of us realize. I wonder if he really does work in more “mysterious ways” than any of us will ever know, or allow ourselves to accept…

—-
PHOTOS FROM BETHEL CHURCH, THIS PAST SUNDAY:
(taken with my iPhone – click any photo to enlarge it)

Flags in Church? Why not? They used to bother me. Now I really like them. If we can get wild and crazy at sporting events, why not while celebrating our creator? (sent from my iPhone)

Kris Vallotton praying for a man who has cancer.

Kris Vallotton preaching onstage.

A “Mystery Worshipper” reviews Bethel – click here.

Categories: Bethel Church, Donny Pauling, iPhone, Kooky, Kris Vallotton, Redding Ca Tags:

IWanthetruth

Donnie,

you are a very interesting person. You have experienced the supernatural touch of the Lord in a Pentacostal Church, but I guess you feel it is a weird church (?) and then the three books that have changes your life are from the Emergent Church folks.

Hmmm! God works mysteriously.
IWanthetruth

Donnie,

you are a very interesting person. You have experienced the supernatural touch of the Lord in a Pentacostal Church, but I guess you feel it is a weird church (?) and then the three books that have changes your life are from the Emergent Church folks.

Hmmm! God works mysteriously.
http://www.johnswritings.com John

“How ’bout asking these ladies how they justify the heavy, jerky bowing they do that causes their low rider pants to expose their G-strings and upper half of their butt cheeks in front of my boys in my youth group?”

Where at in Redding? BURP!
http://www.johnswritings.com/ John

“How ’bout asking these ladies how they justify the heavy, jerky bowing they do that causes their low rider pants to expose their G-strings and upper half of their butt cheeks in front of my boys in my youth group?”

Where at in Redding? BURP!
maxgrace

Hey Donny,
Great post. Really balanced. As always. Bethel is a weird church, but so is mine… it all depends on where you’re coming from. To John, pretty much any church would come across as weird–and he’d be right.

Most people have had a little encounter with the supernatural power of Jesus… but nothing like what happened in the apostle’s days. Dead living. Deaf hearing. Lame walking. For us today, it’s more like feathers dropping and ears popping. Bring me a revived Lazarus, and I’m down for it!

I’m taking my son to see the Transformers today. Should be a spiritual experience.

Later.
Bill
maxgrace

Hey Donny,
Great post. Really balanced. As always. Bethel is a weird church, but so is mine… it all depends on where you’re coming from. To John, pretty much any church would come across as weird–and he’d be right.

Most people have had a little encounter with the supernatural power of Jesus… but nothing like what happened in the apostle’s days. Dead living. Deaf hearing. Lame walking. For us today, it’s more like feathers dropping and ears popping. Bring me a revived Lazarus, and I’m down for it!

I’m taking my son to see the Transformers today. Should be a spiritual experience.

Later.
Bill
spinachtiger

You can’t go wrong following the only “right” that ever lived…Jesus Christ. I got saved in adulthood, a very strong conversion after living a fairly selfish sinful life. God changed me overnight. Here is my encouragement to you. Follow JESUS and not man. Don’t be bewitched by healings, and miracles but be in awe of the cross, the atonement of Jesus for your sins.

Maybe stop reading other books (for a while) and read the Word of God. This will give you your spiritual strength and above all DISCERNMENT. Start in New Testament, read a few times. THen go back and start at the beginning..Actually my favorite is chapter 1, Genesis. I was a zealous, passionate new believer and got misguided in a cultish church. But what led me out, was my zealous reading of the FULL COUNSEL of God. I could then know for sure if someone was saying something in a sermon out of context. The Holy Spirit will help you learn the truth and make sense of out of this bible that is not so easy to understand. But, it is the story of our Savior…it is HIS story, and it is meant for us.

Next month is my 9th anniversary as a new creation in Christ. It took me a while to understand the bible, but now I’m very grounded in it and I can stand in truth. This is what I pray for you.
spinachtiger

You can’t go wrong following the only “right” that ever lived…Jesus Christ. I got saved in adulthood, a very strong conversion after living a fairly selfish sinful life. God changed me overnight. Here is my encouragement to you. Follow JESUS and not man. Don’t be bewitched by healings, and miracles but be in awe of the cross, the atonement of Jesus for your sins.

Maybe stop reading other books (for a while) and read the Word of God. This will give you your spiritual strength and above all DISCERNMENT. Start in New Testament, read a few times. THen go back and start at the beginning..Actually my favorite is chapter 1, Genesis. I was a zealous, passionate new believer and got misguided in a cultish church. But what led me out, was my zealous reading of the FULL COUNSEL of God. I could then know for sure if someone was saying something in a sermon out of context. The Holy Spirit will help you learn the truth and make sense of out of this bible that is not so easy to understand. But, it is the story of our Savior…it is HIS story, and it is meant for us.

Next month is my 9th anniversary as a new creation in Christ. It took me a while to understand the bible, but now I’m very grounded in it and I can stand in truth. This is what I pray for you.
http://spiritfire.shorturl.com/ Spirit Fire

I want to mention some thing here… I do attend this church and have for well over 12 years.. We havent been in the Assembly Of God denom for a while now.. This church is my family and is as well grounded and balanced as I have ever attended in my life ( and I have been to alot of others ) .. Excesses? Yep.. but then you are gonna find that in every organization where ever people are involved.. Doesnt mean we all are that way or we all arent… I can take you to nearly any legit church and find excesses one way or another… NO one is perfect ( although I think we are close! ) Blessings.. Spirit Fire aka Mags
http://spiritfire.shorturl.com Spirit Fire

I want to mention some thing here… I do attend this church and have for well over 12 years.. We havent been in the Assembly Of God denom for a while now.. This church is my family and is as well grounded and balanced as I have ever attended in my life ( and I have been to alot of others ) .. Excesses? Yep.. but then you are gonna find that in every organization where ever people are involved.. Doesnt mean we all are that way or we all arent… I can take you to nearly any legit church and find excesses one way or another… NO one is perfect ( although I think we are close! ) Blessings.. Spirit Fire aka Mags
IWanthetruth

This church is my family and is as well grounded and balanced as I have ever attended in my life ( and I have been to alot of others ) .. Excesses? Yep..

Which is it… grounded or excesses? It shouldn’t be excess at all. Excess tells me that there is no “decency and orderliness” in what is going on.
IWanthetruth

This church is my family and is as well grounded and balanced as I have ever attended in my life ( and I have been to alot of others ) .. Excesses? Yep..

Which is it… grounded or excesses? It shouldn’t be excess at all. Excess tells me that there is no “decency and orderliness” in what is going on.
http://www.donnysramblings.com/ Donny Pauling

IWantthetruth:

Don’t you think Christ is better served when Christians are out trying to reach the lost, rather than arguing about who’s right or wrong? SO much time is wasted on groups badgering each other over differences in beliefs.

Choose where you fit in… and do so. It does nobody any good for us to tear each other down.
http://www.donnysramblings.com Donny Pauling

IWantthetruth:

Don’t you think Christ is better served when Christians are out trying to reach the lost, rather than arguing about who’s right or wrong? SO much time is wasted on groups badgering each other over differences in beliefs.

Choose where you fit in… and do so. It does nobody any good for us to tear each other down.
IWanthetruth

Every day of my life I am endeavoring to show the love of Christ to my neighbors and minister to them. It is a joy and honor to represent Christ because of what he has done for me. To preach to the lost. THAT is our main task, but the the blood of Christ on the cross and repentence is the ONLY thing that will save, deliver and really mean anything in the end.

But at the same time I don’t believe that every wind of doctrine, every method of evangelism should be used. I have found that the methods seem to always come from poor doctrine.

If Christ spoke so much about the false, if the Apostles had so many warnings and instructed those such as Timothy to tell them to stop, isn’t it prudent that we also imitate them in all areas of our walk?

Frankly, I believe that I have been given authority through the word to bring to those who may be teaching incorrectly or falsely, correction but also if it is not taken, I walk away.

If the pride of those is so strong to not beable to atleast listen to correction then I see no reason to go on. I am no pure, perfect bible scholar. I have missed the mark many times in my interpretation and have had to be corrected. It is hard to take sometimes but worth the freedom of knowing Christ better and the word better. I pray that someday the light will go on, but I shake the dust from my feet, still love them as commanded by our Lord, but I will have nothing to do with the false teaching.

There are things that are just plain wrong and should stop. Not just in Bethel and other churches, but in my own church as well. God forbid that we should admit that there is abuse. Not only admit it but do anything about it.
IWanthetruth

Every day of my life I am endeavoring to show the love of Christ to my neighbors and minister to them. It is a joy and honor to represent Christ because of what he has done for me. To preach to the lost. THAT is our main task, but the the blood of Christ on the cross and repentence is the ONLY thing that will save, deliver and really mean anything in the end.

But at the same time I don’t believe that every wind of doctrine, every method of evangelism should be used. I have found that the methods seem to always come from poor doctrine.

If Christ spoke so much about the false, if the Apostles had so many warnings and instructed those such as Timothy to tell them to stop, isn’t it prudent that we also imitate them in all areas of our walk?

Frankly, I believe that I have been given authority through the word to bring to those who may be teaching incorrectly or falsely, correction but also if it is not taken, I walk away.

If the pride of those is so strong to not beable to atleast listen to correction then I see no reason to go on. I am no pure, perfect bible scholar. I have missed the mark many times in my interpretation and have had to be corrected. It is hard to take sometimes but worth the freedom of knowing Christ better and the word better. I pray that someday the light will go on, but I shake the dust from my feet, still love them as commanded by our Lord, but I will have nothing to do with the false teaching.

There are things that are just plain wrong and should stop. Not just in Bethel and other churches, but in my own church as well. God forbid that we should admit that there is abuse. Not only admit it but do anything about it.
Dalen

Iwanthetruth:
You have no relationship with any of these congregations leaders. Without relationship you are overstepping your boundaries. Paul spoke to those he had a relationship with and corrected what he viewed as wrong. Your self-righteous religious arrogance shows clearly, bro. You don’t want the truth, you want everything to add up and be explainable. Anything that is outside of your grid must not be from God. My great grandfather said that God would never allow man to fly to the moon. He said it was wrong and God never intended for that to happen. He even used scripture. I do not remember him well, but I have been told that he was a great man of God who lived a godly life. Man went to the moon a few years after he died. So why did Christ not stop all the counterfeit that was around? Did he cloth the half naked prostitute that was caught in adultery? How about the cultural and societal prejudices that Paul brought into his writing that had nothing to do with being from God.
Dalen

Iwanthetruth:
You have no relationship with any of these congregations leaders. Without relationship you are overstepping your boundaries. Paul spoke to those he had a relationship with and corrected what he viewed as wrong. Your self-righteous religious arrogance shows clearly, bro. You don’t want the truth, you want everything to add up and be explainable. Anything that is outside of your grid must not be from God. My great grandfather said that God would never allow man to fly to the moon. He said it was wrong and God never intended for that to happen. He even used scripture. I do not remember him well, but I have been told that he was a great man of God who lived a godly life. Man went to the moon a few years after he died. So why did Christ not stop all the counterfeit that was around? Did he cloth the half naked prostitute that was caught in adultery? How about the cultural and societal prejudices that Paul brought into his writing that had nothing to do with being from God.
Dalen

Oh, and one more thing. You have no dust on your feet. That would mean that you were actually in some sort of properly commissioned mission work that involved Christ’s love and humility.
Dalen

Oh, and one more thing. You have no dust on your feet. That would mean that you were actually in some sort of properly commissioned mission work that involved Christ’s love and humility.
IWanthetruth

Thank you Dalen,

I have been properly spanked.

I was going to respond to you if only to defend myself. But I think I won’t. I have erased my comments three times now.

I only want to say that I apologize if it seemed I was attacking any particular person, that was not my intent. I strongly believe there is a false teaching going on in the church today that is part of the “prophetic movement” that needs to be addressed. I have been a pentecostal christian for 35+ years, have seen some awesome things that the Lord has done in peoples lives along with many, many people come to know the Lord.

I am sure your are a passionate person who wants to follow after the things of God and loves the Lord. I appreciate your response that was given to me in the “love of the Lord”. That will be my only dig at you….

The rest I will not need to respond to as I think you are angry. Maybe my post above seemed the same way. The problems of blogging, no actual personal body language comunications to see how the person is truely responding. They say body language is a large part of any conversation.

Blessings on you…
IWanthetruth

Thank you Dalen,

I have been properly spanked.

I was going to respond to you if only to defend myself. But I think I won’t. I have erased my comments three times now.

I only want to say that I apologize if it seemed I was attacking any particular person, that was not my intent. I strongly believe there is a false teaching going on in the church today that is part of the “prophetic movement” that needs to be addressed. I have been a pentecostal christian for 35+ years, have seen some awesome things that the Lord has done in peoples lives along with many, many people come to know the Lord.

I am sure your are a passionate person who wants to follow after the things of God and loves the Lord. I appreciate your response that was given to me in the “love of the Lord”. That will be my only dig at you….

The rest I will not need to respond to as I think you are angry. Maybe my post above seemed the same way. The problems of blogging, no actual personal body language comunications to see how the person is truely responding. They say body language is a large part of any conversation.

Blessings on you…
IWanthetruth

Oh by the way Dalen,

I strongly believe there is a false teaching going on in the church today that is part of the “prophetic movement” that needs to be addressed.

I question the church because it supports those that are considered to be the perpetrators of the false teaching of the “prophetic movenment”. They have been there and spread the teaching to your congregation and it is accepted.

I guess you must be a follower of LatterRain/Dominion/Joel’s Army theology?

Have you researched the belief system/theology of these teachings? If not do so.
IWanthetruth

Oh by the way Dalen,

I strongly believe there is a false teaching going on in the church today that is part of the “prophetic movement” that needs to be addressed.

I question the church because it supports those that are considered to be the perpetrators of the false teaching of the “prophetic movenment”. They have been there and spread the teaching to your congregation and it is accepted.

I guess you must be a follower of LatterRain/Dominion/Joel’s Army theology?

Have you researched the belief system/theology of these teachings? If not do so.
Dalen

Iwanthetruth,
I was not and hardly ever are angry in these types of sparring. I definitely disagree with your take that the current prophetic movement is not of God. That being said I never get mad anymore due to opposing opinions. The question is this. Are you willing to be wrong?
Anyway, you seem to be an interesting person. Give me a call sometime, maybe we could spar over coffee sometime if you are not too far away. 530.262.5217
Dalen
Dalen

Iwanthetruth,
I was not and hardly ever are angry in these types of sparring. I definitely disagree with your take that the current prophetic movement is not of God. That being said I never get mad anymore due to opposing opinions. The question is this. Are you willing to be wrong?
Anyway, you seem to be an interesting person. Give me a call sometime, maybe we could spar over coffee sometime if you are not too far away. 530.262.5217
Dalen
IWanthetruth

Good, I am glad you aren’t angry. And yes I am willing to be wrong but after researching for the past year and a half the basic theology of the teachings and what drives the “prophetic movement” I will not concede on.

But I will tell you that at one time I was a cessionist and I did concede that. Why? Because I experienced the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. That was a great experience and it has been an awesome walk with the Lord since then.

If you are a Bethel man you must live in or around Redding. I am about 6 hours north of you in the great state of Oregon. BUT, I am and always will be a native Californian, born in Los Angeles.

Just a small expose on myself. Iam 55, have two kids, one married the other a great guitar player and helps lead worship in a 4square church. I am alos a worship leader in a 4square church. Go figure and I question the theology of the teachings of today????

Anyway, maybe someday as I travel to the south to visit family I’ll give a call and we can indeed talk over a cup of coffee.
IWanthetruth

Good, I am glad you aren’t angry. And yes I am willing to be wrong but after researching for the past year and a half the basic theology of the teachings and what drives the “prophetic movement” I will not concede on.

But I will tell you that at one time I was a cessionist and I did concede that. Why? Because I experienced the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. That was a great experience and it has been an awesome walk with the Lord since then.

If you are a Bethel man you must live in or around Redding. I am about 6 hours north of you in the great state of Oregon. BUT, I am and always will be a native Californian, born in Los Angeles.

Just a small expose on myself. Iam 55, have two kids, one married the other a great guitar player and helps lead worship in a 4square church. I am alos a worship leader in a 4square church. Go figure and I question the theology of the teachings of today????

Anyway, maybe someday as I travel to the south to visit family I’ll give a call and we can indeed talk over a cup of coffee.
Dalen

sounds great,
I am 37 and was raised a p.k. in the Assemblies of God. I am in no way a A.G. apologist. While attending college in Santa Cruz I attended Coastlands (4square). I went to a Baptist high school, etc , and etc. I am not a follower of any of those theologies you mentioned. Just what I have experienced, observed and developed over the last 37 years of life, 32 as a Christian. By the way, I graduated from Salem Academy in ’88. Too much rain. My email if you’d like to continue to communicate is theeccentric@gmail.com.
Dalen
Dalen

sounds great,
I am 37 and was raised a p.k. in the Assemblies of God. I am in no way a A.G. apologist. While attending college in Santa Cruz I attended Coastlands (4square). I went to a Baptist high school, etc , and etc. I am not a follower of any of those theologies you mentioned. Just what I have experienced, observed and developed over the last 37 years of life, 32 as a Christian. By the way, I graduated from Salem Academy in ’88. Too much rain. My email if you’d like to continue to communicate is theeccentric@gmail.com.
Dalen
IWanthetruth

Dalen,

What’s your thoughts on this?

There are many varied beliefs or paradigms regarding the present apostolic/prophetic movement. They take different approaches in their doctrine to justify and explain how and why what they believe is correct. However, in the end their beliefs aren’t very different from one another. One group sees a great overcoming army being raised up by God (commonly referred to as Joel’s Army). Another group (most of the ones you named) believe in the restoration of the governmental rule of apostles and prophets to take the Church to the place of revelation and understanding necessary to restore the Church to its rightful place by their hand. Another group sees the key to the end times in the “spiritual” fulfillment of the Feast of Tabernacles. Another sees the key in the restoration of the Tabernacle of David and Davidic worship. Others see the key in the Manifest Sons of God doctrine, where the Sons of God rise up to take there place in the earth as the great overcomes there were meant to be. There are many variations, but they all are incredibly similar in there belief of a “special” end time group of people that God will have to subdue the earth, conquer Satan and bring in a great end times revival of souls like the world has never seen all the while being so totally filled with God’s power and anointing. Some even see believers becoming so filled with God’s power that they are considered Christ incarnation among His people, or His “corporate body” on earth before He can come again and receive the Kingdom. To arrive at this type of belief scripturally, they have to allegorize God’s Word or practice what is known as Replacement Theology, where promises for literal Israel in the end times are taken to no longer be meant for Israel but for the Church. Since much is based on allegory of scripture and new fresh revelations received from God in order to bring the Church to this special place, one can see why there is so much craziness. It’s so much based on esoteric experiences of “God showed me” or “God told me”, or “God gave me a dream or a vision…blah blah blah” which contain the “new” or “fresh” truths for the Church today. That’s why the Bible, the Word of God, has become so outdated to them and holding to His Word is considered “religious” or “natural minded”. You need the “spirit” to understand what God is doing now so you can’t hold to the old way, you have to let go of your understanding and accept the new understanding God will give you if you will just yield. The point for true believes, is yield to what? If you don’t try things by the Word of God with your mind then how do you know just what you’re yielding to? Signs and wonders are not proof of God. Actually lying signs and wonders involve real healings, true words that are accurate or can come to pass. Manifestations are real. BUT they’re lying when the purpose is to deceive and mislead you from the Truth and cause you to follow another Jesus, or gospel, or Spirit. This is things in a very small nutshell.
IWanthetruth

Dalen,

What’s your thoughts on this?

There are many varied beliefs or paradigms regarding the present apostolic/prophetic movement. They take different approaches in their doctrine to justify and explain how and why what they believe is correct. However, in the end their beliefs aren’t very different from one another. One group sees a great overcoming army being raised up by God (commonly referred to as Joel’s Army). Another group (most of the ones you named) believe in the restoration of the governmental rule of apostles and prophets to take the Church to the place of revelation and understanding necessary to restore the Church to its rightful place by their hand. Another group sees the key to the end times in the “spiritual” fulfillment of the Feast of Tabernacles. Another sees the key in the restoration of the Tabernacle of David and Davidic worship. Others see the key in the Manifest Sons of God doctrine, where the Sons of God rise up to take there place in the earth as the great overcomes there were meant to be. There are many variations, but they all are incredibly similar in there belief of a “special” end time group of people that God will have to subdue the earth, conquer Satan and bring in a great end times revival of souls like the world has never seen all the while being so totally filled with God’s power and anointing. Some even see believers becoming so filled with God’s power that they are considered Christ incarnation among His people, or His “corporate body” on earth before He can come again and receive the Kingdom. To arrive at this type of belief scripturally, they have to allegorize God’s Word or practice what is known as Replacement Theology, where promises for literal Israel in the end times are taken to no longer be meant for Israel but for the Church. Since much is based on allegory of scripture and new fresh revelations received from God in order to bring the Church to this special place, one can see why there is so much craziness. It’s so much based on esoteric experiences of “God showed me” or “God told me”, or “God gave me a dream or a vision…blah blah blah” which contain the “new” or “fresh” truths for the Church today. That’s why the Bible, the Word of God, has become so outdated to them and holding to His Word is considered “religious” or “natural minded”. You need the “spirit” to understand what God is doing now so you can’t hold to the old way, you have to let go of your understanding and accept the new understanding God will give you if you will just yield. The point for true believes, is yield to what? If you don’t try things by the Word of God with your mind then how do you know just what you’re yielding to? Signs and wonders are not proof of God. Actually lying signs and wonders involve real healings, true words that are accurate or can come to pass. Manifestations are real. BUT they’re lying when the purpose is to deceive and mislead you from the Truth and cause you to follow another Jesus, or gospel, or Spirit. This is things in a very small nutshell.
IWanthetruth

Dalen,

By the way, I am a p.k. also……
IWanthetruth

Dalen,

By the way, I am a p.k. also……
Dalen

I think much of that take is bullshit, quite frankly. Dreams and visions need to be taken lightly, and one needs to see if things come to fruition. I believe God made the human race with an innate ability to sense and read in the spiritual realm. Where you take it from there is up to you. People that give very general words of knowledge are often picking up things in a natural way. I’ll expound on all that later. I have some clients to meet with soon here.
Dalen

I think much of that take is bullshit, quite frankly. Dreams and visions need to be taken lightly, and one needs to see if things come to fruition. I believe God made the human race with an innate ability to sense and read in the spiritual realm. Where you take it from there is up to you. People that give very general words of knowledge are often picking up things in a natural way. I’ll expound on all that later. I have some clients to meet with soon here.
IWanthetruth

Dreams and visions need to be taken lightly, and one needs to see if things come to fruition.

Taken lightly by whom, the reciever or the giver, both?

I think part of the problem is that to many people take a dream or vision and without testing just blurt it out. The reciever thinks it’s a “word” and begins to base their “modis operandi”(if spelled right) on the given dream or vision and when it doesn’t come to pass, and many don’t, they can become wary of the faith and begin to question God. I have seen it happen.

My intent by the way wasn’t to focus on the dreams, visions, etc,., but the theology that this person is speaking of. It (these theologies) are rampant and of course it comes down to what you believe and follow, but is it really “sound doctrine”?

Too many people today think that the scriptures are old news and that they need to be re-defined and re-interpreted so as to be successful in the church today.

“People that give very general words of knowledge are often picking up things in a natural way. I’ll expound on all that later. I have some clients to meet with soon here.

I know exactly what you mean here. no to expound unless you really want to.

Blessings
IWanthetruth

Dreams and visions need to be taken lightly, and one needs to see if things come to fruition.

Taken lightly by whom, the reciever or the giver, both?

I think part of the problem is that to many people take a dream or vision and without testing just blurt it out. The reciever thinks it’s a “word” and begins to base their “modis operandi”(if spelled right) on the given dream or vision and when it doesn’t come to pass, and many don’t, they can become wary of the faith and begin to question God. I have seen it happen.

My intent by the way wasn’t to focus on the dreams, visions, etc,., but the theology that this person is speaking of. It (these theologies) are rampant and of course it comes down to what you believe and follow, but is it really “sound doctrine”?

Too many people today think that the scriptures are old news and that they need to be re-defined and re-interpreted so as to be successful in the church today.

“People that give very general words of knowledge are often picking up things in a natural way. I’ll expound on all that later. I have some clients to meet with soon here.

I know exactly what you mean here. no to expound unless you really want to.

Blessings
Arizona

I know kids from my church that go to Bethal and they have told me pretty crazy things. Things to them are very normal. Such as: a man having oil coming from his hands for over three days and the man said he “sprunge a leak”. I have heard of the treasure hunts, tunnels, feathers, gold tooths, gold dust, diamods, being drunk in the spirit, laughing, and many other things that I do not believe are biblical because I have looked. They are no longer interested in the Word of God because it is “boring”. They are addicted to these signs and wonders, healings, and prophetic words! They have said that if the “devil” puts thoughts or doubts into their mind they have been taught to say it and then laugh at it and it will be gone. This is what they are paying to learn!!!

These kids have been convinced that these are acts of the Lord and I would even say they have been brain washed into this. They are up agianst their parents telling them, “You just don’t understand.” Something is not okay with this.

-Arizona
Arizona

I know kids from my church that go to Bethal and they have told me pretty crazy things. Things to them are very normal. Such as: a man having oil coming from his hands for over three days and the man said he “sprunge a leak”. I have heard of the treasure hunts, tunnels, feathers, gold tooths, gold dust, diamods, being drunk in the spirit, laughing, and many other things that I do not believe are biblical because I have looked. They are no longer interested in the Word of God because it is “boring”. They are addicted to these signs and wonders, healings, and prophetic words! They have said that if the “devil” puts thoughts or doubts into their mind they have been taught to say it and then laugh at it and it will be gone. This is what they are paying to learn!!!

These kids have been convinced that these are acts of the Lord and I would even say they have been brain washed into this. They are up agianst their parents telling them, “You just don’t understand.” Something is not okay with this.

-Arizona
Dalen

Wow!, Arizona
I guess if you gave your kids some killer presents, and they loved them.They kept talking about the gifts and spent all of their time with the gifts and forgot about you. I guess they were not from you. Great logic.
Dalen

Wow!, Arizona
I guess if you gave your kids some killer presents, and they loved them.They kept talking about the gifts and spent all of their time with the gifts and forgot about you. I guess they were not from you. Great logic.
IWanthetruth

They are no longer interested in the Word of God because it is “boring”.

Dalen,

Doesn’t this bother you? The scripture is boring? Are they getting this from Bethel?

One of the lies that these kids are being given is that there are only two spiritual buckets–the modern prophetic movement and a dry, lifeless spiritual existence. This greatly ignores history and the examples of MANY great men and women of faith who had vibrant walks with God and possessed NO CONCEPT of this type of teaching.

These are the things that our children are hearing from “Men of God” (from other ministries outside of Bethel, I am not accusing Bethel of this)that disturb us because we are trying so hard to raise our kids in the ways of the Lord and the church that operates in the “prophetic movement” are undermining our attempts to love our kids in the Lord, teach them the truth of the word.

Another statement by another parent,

The last thing that was prophesied over him was that he would return home and his father would label this as heresy. Can you imagine how offensive this type of self-fulfilling trick is to a father that has invested that last twenty years into the life of a child?

So now do you understand why I think a theology that is not based on the truth of the scriptures is dangerous. It leads people away from the truth of the Word. Instead of teaching “Honor thy Father and Mother” they are told that they are to mis-trust them and not listen to them. This is the stuff and much more within these theologies and you tell me that “I think much of that take is bullshit, quite frankly.”

This is not the only area that this is happening in. There are many other area of Christianity that is being taught falsely.

Signs and wonders are good. The Lord gave us the Gifts of the Holy Spirit and those gifts are accompanied by signs and wonders, but not in this kind of extra-biblical crap.

Arizona,

Go to http://signofjonah.wordpress.com/
and read there. You will find much support in your concerns.
IWanthetruth

They are no longer interested in the Word of God because it is “boring”.

Dalen,

Doesn’t this bother you? The scripture is boring? Are they getting this from Bethel?

One of the lies that these kids are being given is that there are only two spiritual buckets–the modern prophetic movement and a dry, lifeless spiritual existence. This greatly ignores history and the examples of MANY great men and women of faith who had vibrant walks with God and possessed NO CONCEPT of this type of teaching.

These are the things that our children are hearing from “Men of God” (from other ministries outside of Bethel, I am not accusing Bethel of this)that disturb us because we are trying so hard to raise our kids in the ways of the Lord and the church that operates in the “prophetic movement” are undermining our attempts to love our kids in the Lord, teach them the truth of the word.

Another statement by another parent,

The last thing that was prophesied over him was that he would return home and his father would label this as heresy. Can you imagine how offensive this type of self-fulfilling trick is to a father that has invested that last twenty years into the life of a child?

So now do you understand why I think a theology that is not based on the truth of the scriptures is dangerous. It leads people away from the truth of the Word. Instead of teaching “Honor thy Father and Mother” they are told that they are to mis-trust them and not listen to them. This is the stuff and much more within these theologies and you tell me that “I think much of that take is bullshit, quite frankly.”

This is not the only area that this is happening in. There are many other area of Christianity that is being taught falsely.

Signs and wonders are good. The Lord gave us the Gifts of the Holy Spirit and those gifts are accompanied by signs and wonders, but not in this kind of extra-biblical crap.

Arizona,

Go to http://signofjonah.wordpress.com/
and read there. You will find much support in your concerns.
Dalen

Arizona,
You are mistaken in what you understand that this leadership is teaching. Hearsay is just that. If you don’t have first-hand knowledge and are actually talking to these leaders personally you have no leg to stand on. Scripture is definitely very important to Bethel, it is not discounted. Signs and wonders are not more important, but they are good. You can lead a horse to water… If the young people choose to desire the gifts over the giver that is their choice. You can’t force them to do what you want. In no way are the leaders of Bethel promoting rebellion. Quite the contrary. Bill is very big on taking what ground that was won from previous generations as inheritance and moving forward. Great respect is given to those in our history. (across denominational lines). These young people you talk about were either given bad counsel by a young leader or they have not given all the info. Maybe a little bit of both. Like Donny said. Let’s stop bitching at each other over frivolous matters and do the real work at hand. There are crazy cult-like churches and churches with false doctrine. Those ones are very easy to spot if you actually have good info and discernment. Bethel will get tagged with all sorts of names, but the truth remains. The relationship with Christ is their push, manifestations, signs and wonders follow.
Peace
Dalen
Dalen

Arizona,
You are mistaken in what you understand that this leadership is teaching. Hearsay is just that. If you don’t have first-hand knowledge and are actually talking to these leaders personally you have no leg to stand on. Scripture is definitely very important to Bethel, it is not discounted. Signs and wonders are not more important, but they are good. You can lead a horse to water… If the young people choose to desire the gifts over the giver that is their choice. You can’t force them to do what you want. In no way are the leaders of Bethel promoting rebellion. Quite the contrary. Bill is very big on taking what ground that was won from previous generations as inheritance and moving forward. Great respect is given to those in our history. (across denominational lines). These young people you talk about were either given bad counsel by a young leader or they have not given all the info. Maybe a little bit of both. Like Donny said. Let’s stop bitching at each other over frivolous matters and do the real work at hand. There are crazy cult-like churches and churches with false doctrine. Those ones are very easy to spot if you actually have good info and discernment. Bethel will get tagged with all sorts of names, but the truth remains. The relationship with Christ is their push, manifestations, signs and wonders follow.
Peace
Dalen
Arizona

Iwantthetruth,

Thanks for the website. I haven’t had a chance to check it out, but I will. I have been subject to these teaching for over ten years. Many things didn’t “seem” ok to me, but I trusted the people who were in leadership over me. After recent conversations, previously stated, I decided that I would look a little more into it. When I started it was like my eyes were opened up to a whole world I never knew. I am coninuing to look into these things and my family and I are in the process of finding a new church home. This is not an easy thing by any means, but the Bible says what it says and I am not willing to risk my salvation on the account that God “might” be okay with these signs and wonders.

Dalen,

I am a little unsure what your point is. And I feel no need to fued with you over this. It’s not right and that’s that.
Arizona

Iwantthetruth,

Thanks for the website. I haven’t had a chance to check it out, but I will. I have been subject to these teaching for over ten years. Many things didn’t “seem” ok to me, but I trusted the people who were in leadership over me. After recent conversations, previously stated, I decided that I would look a little more into it. When I started it was like my eyes were opened up to a whole world I never knew. I am coninuing to look into these things and my family and I are in the process of finding a new church home. This is not an easy thing by any means, but the Bible says what it says and I am not willing to risk my salvation on the account that God “might” be okay with these signs and wonders.

Dalen,

I am a little unsure what your point is. And I feel no need to fued with you over this. It’s not right and that’s that.
Dalen

Arizona,
I meant to address Iwanthetruth in the last post. Something you should look at. In the history of the world since the death and resurrection of Christ there have been many revivals. Most marked by signs and wonders such as these “new” ones. The church body does not do much in teaching church history. I know of a book that documents many things like what happens today, yet these happened over a hundred years ago. I have no intention of feuding with you, but I will state truth. You can believe what you want.
Dalen

Arizona,
I meant to address Iwanthetruth in the last post. Something you should look at. In the history of the world since the death and resurrection of Christ there have been many revivals. Most marked by signs and wonders such as these “new” ones. The church body does not do much in teaching church history. I know of a book that documents many things like what happens today, yet these happened over a hundred years ago. I have no intention of feuding with you, but I will state truth. You can believe what you want.