Bethel Is A Really Weird Church

This article was originally written in response to an article on another website.  That article no longer exists.  The author was addressing something that Bethel Church calls “treasure hunts”, and his tone was very negative.

DISCLAIMER:  When I wrote the article you see here, I was making an attempt at being neutral.  I had my doubts about Bethel, but I’d also experienced things there that I couldn’t explain.  In the comments area on this article, there are those who have a very negative view of Bethel, and those who have a very positive view of Bethel.  I’ve left their comments because I am confident Bethel can handle either view.

My personal opinions about the church have changed over the years.  I held a lot of anger and bitterness towards them because of a few negative interactions between two staff members and myself.  Over the years (this was written in the middle of 2007) I’ve reached a place of peace.  I no longer hold any animosity towards anyone at Bethel.  I’ve removed a few links that I once had placed in this header section, but the original article I wrote has not been changed.

Regardless of one’s personal opinions on things that happen, or are rumored to happen, at Bethel, I can personally say this:  God definitely moves.  Even if you personally hate everything Bethel stands for, please remember that.  And keep in mind, God moves in mysterious ways.  He can speak through a donkey or through gold dust.

Ah, a post on the crazy church in Redding known as Bethel… and a detailed one at that.

First of all, let me paint a little background picture for the record:

I produced porn for 9 years. For the first 3 years of that time I was married and hid it from my now ex-wife, who was devastated when she found out. She found healing at Bethel Church in Redding. She’d tell me things that happened at that church and I’d get angry because it sounded so stupid and ridiculous.

I made fun of her all the time when she’d tell me some of the things the “School of Ministry” students did (she became a 1st year school of ministry student herself). Crazy things happened, supposedly. Like feathers falling from the sky during service…. like the time when the quadriplegic she cared for had her tooth healed (“Donny, I brushed her teeth for her this morning before taking her to church… that gold tooth wasn’t there, I swear to you!”). Like all sorts of other “healings”.

People come from all over the world to attend that church.

Last year I wanted to turn my life over to God and leave porn production. I reached out to Bethel. 4 times. They wouldn’t talk to me. I don’t know why. They wouldn’t return calls. Wendy (my ex) had her sister go directly to leadership and implore them to call me. They didn’t.

I eventually surrendered my life to God on my own. And I decided to check out Bethel.

It’s weird. That’s for sure.

But I felt God there. Very strongly. I decided to follow along on a “treasure hunt” like the one of which you spoke. I was flabbergasted at what happened. I rode along with one of the church’s pastors, in his car, as we drove around Redding. He saw a group of people standing in front of Carl’s Jr and walked up to them. I followed. The people must have thought we were really odd when he said he had “a word” for one woman in the group. He told her that God knew she hadn’t been sleeping well the last few nights and that was all going to stop as of “right now”. He told her other personal things about herself. The whole group started laughing because he was RIGHT ON about everything, including her not sleeping well the last few days.

It was really weird to witness that. I didn’t want to accept it then, and I still don’t now. But I can’t deny it happened.

One night I had a very painful ear ache. In the middle of service it was called out that someone had pain in their ear and God wanted to heal them. I took the chance and stood up. Less than 10 seconds after they started praying, my ear popped and stopped hurting.

It was really weird. But it happened.

I don’t go to that church very often anymore. This past Sunday was the first time in a few months. It weirds me out. I find some of the people odd, and one of their counselors pulled some crap I don’t appreciate at all.

They go way off into la la land on some of their teachings. They talk about things I’ve never heard in church before.

I like facts and am not as into “supernatural” stuff. It doesn’t resolve for me. But after Bethel I sometimes wonder if there’s a whole lot more “supernatural” to God than most of us realize. I wonder if he really does work in more “mysterious ways” than any of us will ever know, or allow ourselves to accept…

—-
PHOTOS FROM BETHEL CHURCH, THIS PAST SUNDAY:
(taken with my iPhone – click any photo to enlarge it)

Flags In Church
Flags in Church? Why not? They used to bother me. Now I really like them. If we can get wild and crazy at sporting events, why not while celebrating our creator? (sent from my iPhone)

Kris Vallotton Praying After Service
Kris Vallotton praying for a man who has cancer.

Kris on Stage and Onscreen
Kris Vallotton preaching onstage.

A “Mystery Worshipper” reviews Bethel – click here.

  • Damon

    I have been on a couple of treasure hunts as our church has them on a monthly basis. I have also visited a Bethel church in Valpo Indiana. Having grown up in a charismatic church I have seen about everything. It really bothers me when people are told how to respond to the spirit of God. We are all different and our response to the Holy Spirit can be different as well. Sure there are alot of “strange” things happening in some of these services, but from my experience, God is always glorified. We go on treasure hunts not to see cool stuff happen but because God cares about our community and wants to let them know that He does. Who do you think He asked to tell others that He loves them…Christians!! I have seen people healed of sickness or broken hearts mended from a word that the Lord had for them. I also remember thinking how crazy what I was telling someone sounded followed by amazment after learning how spot on it was to thier situation. If you do not agree with these types of things, that is fine. What on earth ever happened to brothers and sisters in Christ having the ability to disagree with doctrine yet still love each other. Christ did not say, on this doctrine I will build my church or the greatest commandment is agree on doctrine. Although it is important to know and agree that Christ is our way to eternal life, some of these other issues, in my opinion, are debatable and do not decide our eternal fate. Let’s not waste too much time arguing about these types of things, there is a world full of lost souls that require our attention.

  • Damon

    I have been on a couple of treasure hunts as our church has them on a monthly basis. I have also visited a Bethel church in Valpo Indiana. Having grown up in a charismatic church I have seen about everything. It really bothers me when people are told how to respond to the spirit of God. We are all different and our response to the Holy Spirit can be different as well. Sure there are alot of “strange” things happening in some of these services, but from my experience, God is always glorified. We go on treasure hunts not to see cool stuff happen but because God cares about our community and wants to let them know that He does. Who do you think He asked to tell others that He loves them…Christians!! I have seen people healed of sickness or broken hearts mended from a word that the Lord had for them. I also remember thinking how crazy what I was telling someone sounded followed by amazment after learning how spot on it was to thier situation. If you do not agree with these types of things, that is fine. What on earth ever happened to brothers and sisters in Christ having the ability to disagree with doctrine yet still love each other. Christ did not say, on this doctrine I will build my church or the greatest commandment is agree on doctrine. Although it is important to know and agree that Christ is our way to eternal life, some of these other issues, in my opinion, are debatable and do not decide our eternal fate. Let’s not waste too much time arguing about these types of things, there is a world full of lost souls that require our attention.

  • naapcorp

    Wow Spinachtiger. Very good advice! Holy Spirit as Teacher. Nice reminder. Thanks. I actually googled “church is weird” and found this blog. But Jesus has never been weird. Not to me. Same goes for Holy Spirit. God is not weird. Only different. He’s so unbelievably kind. So much kinder than any person I’ve met. And classy. Clean. Refreshing. Calm. Strong. Yes, church is weird. But He is Beautiful. And I’ve run into Him there a time or two.

  • naapcorp

    Wow Spinachtiger. Very good advice! Holy Spirit as Teacher. Nice reminder. Thanks. I actually googled “church is weird” and found this blog. But Jesus has never been weird. Not to me. Same goes for Holy Spirit. God is not weird. Only different. He’s so unbelievably kind. So much kinder than any person I’ve met. And classy. Clean. Refreshing. Calm. Strong. Yes, church is weird. But He is Beautiful. And I’ve run into Him there a time or two.

  • Isabella

    I was just reading through the comments and your blog. I’m not here to judge or start a discussion. I just wanted to tell you that if you open your heart and really give yourself a chance to get to know God for who He is…. you’d be amazed at how great our God really is. We often describe God according to our experience or our level of understanding. Which is far from the reality of who He really is. The truth is, God is all powerful and supernatural. He is not limited by time, space or resources. Its difficult for us to comprehend His greatness and we often question God for His work or the way He does things. because we live in the natural world with limited knowledge. Our sights and knowledge are limited, but God sees us from the perspective of history, present and future.

    We feel uncomfortable or use words like “weird” or “strange” to define what we experience or see when God does something beyond our level of understanding. So since we’re just human…maybe we should stop trying to explain God… I suggest that we just let God be God and for our part, get to know Him better before we question Him and His work. Invest more time in reading His words, and begin to understand His heart and His love for all mankind. If God can do miracles 2000 years ago, and He never changes, then why should we find it weird to see miracles happening today?

  • Isabella

    I was just reading through the comments and your blog. I’m not here to judge or start a discussion. I just wanted to tell you that if you open your heart and really give yourself a chance to get to know God for who He is…. you’d be amazed at how great our God really is. We often describe God according to our experience or our level of understanding. Which is far from the reality of who He really is. The truth is, God is all powerful and supernatural. He is not limited by time, space or resources. Its difficult for us to comprehend His greatness and we often question God for His work or the way He does things. because we live in the natural world with limited knowledge. Our sights and knowledge are limited, but God sees us from the perspective of history, present and future.

    We feel uncomfortable or use words like “weird” or “strange” to define what we experience or see when God does something beyond our level of understanding. So since we’re just human…maybe we should stop trying to explain God… I suggest that we just let God be God and for our part, get to know Him better before we question Him and His work. Invest more time in reading His words, and begin to understand His heart and His love for all mankind. If God can do miracles 2000 years ago, and He never changes, then why should we find it weird to see miracles happening today?

  • Isabella

    I really like your response. I absolutely agree with you. I just really think that its so dangerous to make comments about the work of the Holy Spirit. Who are we to question God’s work

  • Isabella

    I really like your response. I absolutely agree with you. I just really think that its so dangerous to make comments about the work of the Holy Spirit. Who are we to question God’s work

  • josh

    Hi Guys Love your blog and the discussions, I just wanted to share a insight that I received after praying and reading my bible. I first need to share some of my background info for it to make sense. I was adopted when I was 2 years old, to a Caucasian Military family. When I was 11 years old I was given custody to the State of Hawaii. I lived with many different Nationalities by living in many foster homes. By God’s grace I was adopted again at 21 years old to a Korean family. My Korean Mother is a Assembly of God Pastor and She is a First Generation Korean. Her way of thinking is very different from my own. I must admit the way she operates and handles the church go against my logic, and sometimes even what I believe. So I asked God in prayer one night, I was upset and Asked god how can you use someone like that, and I got this from him. “Because my Grace is sufficient” I guess I felt the Church needed to be done in a manner that goes in sync with my logic, and my own personal belief. I am wrong we are all sinners and we all are saved by grace. I think only when we have his heart, mind, and will above our own interest, can we truly be selfless, and be Christ lead. If we are drawing theological lines…that separate us. Then we are not truly one God brought down the curtain that Enclosed the holy of holies when Jesus died. He made the way for us to come to him. I think we should encourage one another, rebuke one another, but it should be done to build up and not to tear down. I remember when I first came to Christ. My understanding about the bible and gods word was borderline heretical. Then only thing I knew that I had right was that God loved me and he was my savior. The bible has one recurring message and it all points to Jesus. Lets Preach Christ and Him Crucified and let the Holy spirit direct them. “He that is in me is greater than he who is in the world.” May God Bless you and touch you.
    Your brother in Christ

  • josh

    Hi Guys Love your blog and the discussions, I just wanted to share a insight that I received after praying and reading my bible. I first need to share some of my background info for it to make sense. I was adopted when I was 2 years old, to a Caucasian Military family. When I was 11 years old I was given custody to the State of Hawaii. I lived with many different Nationalities by living in many foster homes. By God’s grace I was adopted again at 21 years old to a Korean family. My Korean Mother is a Assembly of God Pastor and She is a First Generation Korean. Her way of thinking is very different from my own. I must admit the way she operates and handles the church go against my logic, and sometimes even what I believe. So I asked God in prayer one night, I was upset and Asked god how can you use someone like that, and I got this from him. “Because my Grace is sufficient” I guess I felt the Church needed to be done in a manner that goes in sync with my logic, and my own personal belief. I am wrong we are all sinners and we all are saved by grace. I think only when we have his heart, mind, and will above our own interest, can we truly be selfless, and be Christ lead. If we are drawing theological lines…that separate us. Then we are not truly one God brought down the curtain that Enclosed the holy of holies when Jesus died. He made the way for us to come to him. I think we should encourage one another, rebuke one another, but it should be done to build up and not to tear down. I remember when I first came to Christ. My understanding about the bible and gods word was borderline heretical. Then only thing I knew that I had right was that God loved me and he was my savior. The bible has one recurring message and it all points to Jesus. Lets Preach Christ and Him Crucified and let the Holy spirit direct them. “He that is in me is greater than he who is in the world.” May God Bless you and touch you.
    Your brother in Christ

  • http://www.ibethel.tv/media/free?referrer=donnysramblings.com Jason

    Very interesting church indeed. Want more ? Take a peek at ibethel.tv — real, supernatural television :)

  • http://www.ibethel.tv/media/free?referrer=donnysramblings.com Jason

    Very interesting church indeed. Want more ? Take a peek at ibethel.tv — real, supernatural television :)

  • Bonnie

    Donny….I have learned over the years that my Lord…my God is who he is and not who I want him to be in my image…I am made in His image. Many thing have happened in Vineyard and Bethel that I personally experienced, that I personally can not explain..that I personally have been changed by. I believe that is what it is about…Trusting God and His goodness. Living a full life lead by the Holy Spirit, and not being part of this world but of His Kingdom and submitted under God authority and rule of your life.
    I respect that you are so open about your past…that truth has set you free…an you are fgree indeed.
    Goodness was done for you in your healing…greater good was done for you through your experiencing and recogizing there are just some things you may never know about God until that day you are fully in His presence. God Bless you Donny. John Wimber founder of Vineyard use to say “my mind has been oftended that my heart be effected.

  • Bonnie

    Donny….I have learned over the years that my Lord…my God is who he is and not who I want him to be in my image…I am made in His image. Many thing have happened in Vineyard and Bethel that I personally experienced, that I personally can not explain..that I personally have been changed by. I believe that is what it is about…Trusting God and His goodness. Living a full life lead by the Holy Spirit, and not being part of this world but of His Kingdom and submitted under God authority and rule of your life.
    I respect that you are so open about your past…that truth has set you free…an you are fgree indeed.
    Goodness was done for you in your healing…greater good was done for you through your experiencing and recogizing there are just some things you may never know about God until that day you are fully in His presence. God Bless you Donny. John Wimber founder of Vineyard use to say “my mind has been oftended that my heart be effected.

  • Bonnie

    I love ibethel tv I love the Lord..and I love what I have through Jesus. He is so good to all of us…nothing is going to stop His love for us…Nothing eill change His goodness !!!!

  • Bonnie

    I love ibethel tv I love the Lord..and I love what I have through Jesus. He is so good to all of us…nothing is going to stop His love for us…Nothing eill change His goodness !!!!

  • krametorg

    From my vantage point, the American church is religous, without life and soulish for the most part. We have become pastor mills that do not follow the word of God for how church should be run. Ephesians 4 describes the model for church. Who besides Bethel and a handful of others is following it? So who is being the church and who isn’t?

    American churches are packaged, predictable and for the large part dead and without power. Look at what they produce as evidence. Is the Christian church-goer different than the world? Not really. What plagues the world, plagues the church because we are all soul. We wouldn’t know a spiritual experience if it bit us on the nose.

    It seems here too, most are only comfortable with what is predictible and soulish. We pray all the time for miracles and the supernatural power of God – as long as that doesn’t lead to the manifest presence of God, right? Then it’s starting to get weird. What makes anyone so sure that a supernatural God is predictible?

    There is verse that fits here: “But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.”

  • krametorg

    From my vantage point, the American church is religous, without life and soulish for the most part. We have become pastor mills that do not follow the word of God for how church should be run. Ephesians 4 describes the model for church. Who besides Bethel and a handful of others is following it? So who is being the church and who isn’t?

    American churches are packaged, predictable and for the large part dead and without power. Look at what they produce as evidence. Is the Christian church-goer different than the world? Not really. What plagues the world, plagues the church because we are all soul. We wouldn’t know a spiritual experience if it bit us on the nose.

    It seems here too, most are only comfortable with what is predictible and soulish. We pray all the time for miracles and the supernatural power of God – as long as that doesn’t lead to the manifest presence of God, right? Then it’s starting to get weird. What makes anyone so sure that a supernatural God is predictible?

    There is verse that fits here: “But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.”

  • Anonymous

    Krametorg,

    Have you been to Bethel?

  • http://www.donnysramblings.com/about/ Donny Pauling

    Krametorg,

    Have you been to Bethel?

  • krametorg

    Yes

  • krametorg

    Yes

  • Anonymous

    I’ve been many times. Many, many times. I am quite aware of what they wish to be, but what one wishes to be and what one actually is are almost entirely different realities. I hear lots of exciting talk, terminology that gets people exciting, and even personal healings. But personal healing’s not any different from other churches. The attitude that one will only encounter spiritual experiences at places like Bethel is not accurate.

    One WILL, however, encounter sermons about the importance of giving, followed by a rush of the “Kingdom Finance Company” buckets, on Easter Sunday. That was one of the last times I attended. I’d been overlooking the overwhelming push for money for a long time prior to that (one of my close friends had been a volunteer for a few years until he started having to PAY to VOLUNTEER) but that sermon is what did it for me. I can tell you one area where Bethel IS different than most other churches: the size of their miraculous offerings are definitely above the norm.

  • http://www.donnysramblings.com/about/ Donny Pauling

    I’ve been many times. Many, many times. I am quite aware of what they wish to be, but what one wishes to be and what one actually is are almost entirely different realities. I hear lots of exciting talk, terminology that gets people exciting, and even personal healings. But personal healing’s not any different from other churches. The attitude that one will only encounter spiritual experiences at places like Bethel is not accurate.

    One WILL, however, encounter sermons about the importance of giving, followed by a rush of the “Kingdom Finance Company” buckets, on Easter Sunday. That was one of the last times I attended. I’d been overlooking the overwhelming push for money for a long time prior to that (one of my close friends had been a volunteer for a few years until he started having to PAY to VOLUNTEER) but that sermon is what did it for me. I can tell you one area where Bethel IS different than most other churches: the size of their miraculous offerings are definitely above the norm.

  • Anonymous

    Also, it should be known that I want with everything inside of me to be able to embrace Bethel. My inability to do so is the single biggest issue that separates me from my son’s mother. But I will NOT pretend for her. I just can’t get into Bethel. EVERYTHING costs money there. All these “conferences”… volunteering… watching sermons online… taking to someone about your problems (yes, even counseling at Bethel costs money)… EVERYTHING. Every service is “supernatural” at Bethel. People will pay a lot of money when you make them feel good. Knowing that, I can’t attend very often when such a push for money is so blatant.

  • http://www.donnysramblings.com/about/ Donny Pauling

    Also, it should be known that I want with everything inside of me to be able to embrace Bethel. My inability to do so is the single biggest issue that separates me from my son’s mother. But I will NOT pretend for her. I just can’t get into Bethel. EVERYTHING costs money there. All these “conferences”… volunteering… watching sermons online… taking to someone about your problems (yes, even counseling at Bethel costs money)… EVERYTHING. Every service is “supernatural” at Bethel. People will pay a lot of money when you make them feel good. Knowing that, I can’t attend very often when such a push for money is so blatant.

  • krametorg

    From what I hear it seems you are saying that wanting and not being, is somehow worse than NOT wanting and not being.

    Of course God has not reserved Bethel as the only place we can encounter him. I totally agree with that. But there are a number of amazing things going on there and the question should not be why is it happening there, it should be “why isn’t it happening here too?”

    As for the teaching differences, I guess I need follow the advice of Kris Vollaton. “Some truths are weightier than others.” Of course we should give to the Lord (weighty truth), but we under no absolute obligation being under grace (weightier truth). So that is between God and you. Remember Rom. 12:9, “Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.”

    By the way, if you find that perfect church, let me know. That would finally end my lifetime pursuit to find one. (c:

    Blessings to you and your ministry, Bro! May you be OUTRAGEOUSLY blessed for the choices you have made.

  • krametorg

    From what I hear it seems you are saying that wanting and not being, is somehow worse than NOT wanting and not being.

    Of course God has not reserved Bethel as the only place we can encounter him. I totally agree with that. But there are a number of amazing things going on there and the question should not be why is it happening there, it should be “why isn’t it happening here too?”

    As for the teaching differences, I guess I need follow the advice of Kris Vollaton. “Some truths are weightier than others.” Of course we should give to the Lord (weighty truth), but we under no absolute obligation being under grace (weightier truth). So that is between God and you. Remember Rom. 12:9, “Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.”

    By the way, if you find that perfect church, let me know. That would finally end my lifetime pursuit to find one. (c:

    Blessings to you and your ministry, Bro! May you be OUTRAGEOUSLY blessed for the choices you have made.

  • Anonymous

    Honestly, my friend, I’d expect no other response.

  • http://www.donnysramblings.com/about/ Donny Pauling

    Honestly, my friend, I’d expect no other response.

  • alissa

    Hi, I just came upon this website… I’m actually studying for a final exam tomorrow as I am a college student. I just don’t know how to feel about this whole Redding, Bethel stuff.

    Our church is from Vancouver, BC. We’ve had our pastor for 3 years now. Before, he was the associate pastor. Recently though, he has been very hyped up about Bethel. There was a team from Bethel that stayed with our church for a few days. And our pastor is starting to act like them in terms of expressions, starting to dress like Bill Johnson, starting to mention him a lot in sermons. And I can see that he is really passionate about heading into the direction Bethel is. A few of our congregation have talked to him about there being more “Spirit” and less “word”, and that they weren’t learning anything (Biblical-wise) anymore aside from the Holy Spirit sermons and stuff, but mostly their concerns have been blocked, with the pastor pointing out that they have struggles with sin they couldn’t deal with, even with the word having been present for years now. My pastor says the church is heading for a revival but I am honestly not feeling it. This is getting creepy and I am becoming concerned. I don’t know what to do…

    Many families I know are also concerned and thinking of moving churches. I personally believe in healings and speaking in tongues (which I can do), but I am extremely uncomfortable in terms of the direction the church is being led into. My family members are thinking of changing churches, but I feel it is wrong to just abandon your home church just because you aren’t getting the word anymore or it’s getting too “spriritual”. I have suggested that we form a big group and confront the pastor about this, but I have been told that the pastor hasn’t been listening to individuals who have talked to him and instead pointed out the sins in their lives (which I honestly think is not right either). Any thoughts, please…?

  • alissa

    Hi, I just came upon this website… I’m actually studying for a final exam tomorrow as I am a college student. I just don’t know how to feel about this whole Redding, Bethel stuff.

    Our church is from Vancouver, BC. We’ve had our pastor for 3 years now. Before, he was the associate pastor. Recently though, he has been very hyped up about Bethel. There was a team from Bethel that stayed with our church for a few days. And our pastor is starting to act like them in terms of expressions, starting to dress like Bill Johnson, starting to mention him a lot in sermons. And I can see that he is really passionate about heading into the direction Bethel is. A few of our congregation have talked to him about there being more “Spirit” and less “word”, and that they weren’t learning anything (Biblical-wise) anymore aside from the Holy Spirit sermons and stuff, but mostly their concerns have been blocked, with the pastor pointing out that they have struggles with sin they couldn’t deal with, even with the word having been present for years now. My pastor says the church is heading for a revival but I am honestly not feeling it. This is getting creepy and I am becoming concerned. I don’t know what to do…

    Many families I know are also concerned and thinking of moving churches. I personally believe in healings and speaking in tongues (which I can do), but I am extremely uncomfortable in terms of the direction the church is being led into. My family members are thinking of changing churches, but I feel it is wrong to just abandon your home church just because you aren’t getting the word anymore or it’s getting too “spriritual”. I have suggested that we form a big group and confront the pastor about this, but I have been told that the pastor hasn’t been listening to individuals who have talked to him and instead pointed out the sins in their lives (which I honestly think is not right either). Any thoughts, please…?

  • http://dalenphoto.com/ Dalen Muster

    I and my family left Bethel after 5 years for a number of reasons. One big one was lack of HEALTHY accountability with middle management. Lack of any kind of covering for those people as well. In my opinion Bethel has very few good things in integrity that outweigh the liabilities. There is actually a bubble that seems to cloud good judgment when people dive into the culture. It seems that many of the students check their God-given brain at the door in favor of spiritual-orgie manifestations. Miracles are great, but God is the one doing that, not them.

  • http://dalenphoto.com Dalen Muster

    I and my family left Bethel after 5 years for a number of reasons. One big one was lack of HEALTHY accountability with middle management. Lack of any kind of covering for those people as well. In my opinion Bethel has very few good things in integrity that outweigh the liabilities. There is actually a bubble that seems to cloud good judgment when people dive into the culture. It seems that many of the students check their God-given brain at the door in favor of spiritual-orgie manifestations. Miracles are great, but God is the one doing that, not them.

  • Rann

    Alissa,

    I don’t have time to elaborate, but, please be careful. If your family does not attend the church you must find a family that you greatly respect to share your cautions. Please consider an exhortation found in I John 2:5-6,please read all the chapter to understand the context, “But if anyone obeys his work, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.” To me this says, Jesus is our example in how to live this life, do not imitate this person or that organization or Bill Johnson. Read the Word, preferably both the Old and New Testament and pray and find a godly family to share your concern and glean from their wisdom.

  • Rann

    Alissa,

    I don’t have time to elaborate, but, please be careful. If your family does not attend the church you must find a family that you greatly respect to share your cautions. Please consider an exhortation found in I John 2:5-6,please read all the chapter to understand the context, “But if anyone obeys his work, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.” To me this says, Jesus is our example in how to live this life, do not imitate this person or that organization or Bill Johnson. Read the Word, preferably both the Old and New Testament and pray and find a godly family to share your concern and glean from their wisdom.

  • Jack

    I’ve been in ministry since 1984 and have worked around the world with well known leaders and many more not so well known. I’ve carefully observed a number of so called “moves of God” and was in a church fraught with miracles through the 80′s — one of the more notable ones was a woman whose spine had been severed in several places in an auto accident. Her xrays were sent to various outstanding medical specialists and the consensus was unanimous — there was no medical help for her.

    One night she called me up and told me she had been healed. (she’d been paraplegic and had no sensation or movement below her arms.) I had hauled her wheelchair in my hatchback car for several lunches we had before she was healed) Now she was walking. She went on to marry and have children. Incidentally she was healed one night while being prayed for by a woman (and her daughter) who was the most notorious gossip I’ve ever met. That woman’s gossip caused more hurt and pain to more people than anyone else I know. But God used her (and her daughter) anyway to heal this paraplegic. Just because there are sin and faulty people involved — does not mean that grace does not abound. Why wasn’t she healed when being prayed for by one of many ministers who walked in holiness that had prayed for her? I don’t know.

    The church that she was attending (which I also attended) was also weird like Bethel — which my wife and I have visited a few times. Like Bethel, there was also lots going on at that church that angered people. There was misguided focus on supernatural events — but there was also a focus on God. People sin regardless of what church they are at. You can’t stop it and if you try you’ll go crazy. The same appears to be true at Bethel.

    Miracles and the environment that fosters them is mostly only weird because it is unusual. As it becomes more common at more churches (and it will) we will learn how to flow more with God, become more focused on him, and less distracted by the unusual nature of miracles because they will be more commonplace. Churches are always weird for one reason or another — some are weird because they are so dead. Others are weird because they are so alive and some are weird because they are so conformist. One thing is for sure — you’ll never have miracles in abundance where people do things the way they do them at the churches where miracles are scarce or non-existent. You cannot have outstanding results by doing average things. It defies any form of reason to expect otherwise.

    What I do know is that the purity of God’s spirit can be felt, it can be sensed, and it can be experienced when it is in manifestation. If you visit Bethel you can experience God for yourself in that environment. Yes there will be youth, and some adults, who do strange things — at times the strange things such as laughing, are clearly from a liberating encounter with God.

    At other times it is just people, often youth, who are trying to make something happen — sometimes because they are drunk or stoned on things other than the spirit. People in any church will not always be perfect. Also the kind of people that are drawn to the atmosphere at Bethel are drawn there because they are weird enough that nobody would let them into a more sedate church. They’d either leave due to alienation or be thrown out. Why? They are damaged people that the sedate church has no hope, tolerance, or answers for. At least in an environment like Bethel they stand a chance of getting something from God that can transform them. At most churches there would be no hope of that.

    If Bethel started kicking out the people that were out of line, leadership that made mistakes God is dealing with them about, the kids who went to services high or drunk, the people with real or desperate needs, then Bethel would settle down and become just like your favorite church. We live in a people pleasing society and most of us are sick from pleasing others, from others saying things to us to please us, and from all sorts of dishonesty that is socially acceptable. However we serve a God who, in the old testament, found the smell of burning flesh to be a sweet savor in his nostrils. God is clearly pleased in different ways from us. Therefore let’s not be so quick to judge that which is different in case we need that power someday to get our wife, husband, or child back from the brink of death.

    At Bethel my wife was healed instantly of an injured leg, and also from something that made it virtually impossible for us to have sex. We’d have it a couple times a year and it was no fun. We tried many medical solutions but as a husband I can tell you it sure is wonderful after a decade of marriage — to have sex often instead of only a couple times a year and with unbelievable complications when we did. Try having a married life without the intimacy of sex and then have that suddenly and miraculously restored. You people who are so small minded as to criticize that which you don’t understand — to the point where you’d want it stopped, and who would attempt to dissuade others from it — are unbelievably selfish. God is not sending anyone to hell because they seek healing from places where it is happening in abundance. People go to hell because of their attitude toward God — not because they got a little weird at a celebration of his miraculous power.

  • http://no Jack

    I’ve been in ministry since 1984 and have worked around the world with well known leaders and many more not so well known. I’ve carefully observed a number of so called “moves of God” and was in a church fraught with miracles through the 80′s — one of the more notable ones was a woman whose spine had been severed in several places in an auto accident. Her xrays were sent to various outstanding medical specialists and the consensus was unanimous — there was no medical help for her.

    One night she called me up and told me she had been healed. (she’d been paraplegic and had no sensation or movement below her arms.) I had hauled her wheelchair in my hatchback car for several lunches we had before she was healed) Now she was walking. She went on to marry and have children. Incidentally she was healed one night while being prayed for by a woman (and her daughter) who was the most notorious gossip I’ve ever met. That woman’s gossip caused more hurt and pain to more people than anyone else I know. But God used her (and her daughter) anyway to heal this paraplegic. Just because there are sin and faulty people involved — does not mean that grace does not abound. Why wasn’t she healed when being prayed for by one of many ministers who walked in holiness that had prayed for her? I don’t know.

    The church that she was attending (which I also attended) was also weird like Bethel — which my wife and I have visited a few times. Like Bethel, there was also lots going on at that church that angered people. There was misguided focus on supernatural events — but there was also a focus on God. People sin regardless of what church they are at. You can’t stop it and if you try you’ll go crazy. The same appears to be true at Bethel.

    Miracles and the environment that fosters them is mostly only weird because it is unusual. As it becomes more common at more churches (and it will) we will learn how to flow more with God, become more focused on him, and less distracted by the unusual nature of miracles because they will be more commonplace. Churches are always weird for one reason or another — some are weird because they are so dead. Others are weird because they are so alive and some are weird because they are so conformist. One thing is for sure — you’ll never have miracles in abundance where people do things the way they do them at the churches where miracles are scarce or non-existent. You cannot have outstanding results by doing average things. It defies any form of reason to expect otherwise.

    What I do know is that the purity of God’s spirit can be felt, it can be sensed, and it can be experienced when it is in manifestation. If you visit Bethel you can experience God for yourself in that environment. Yes there will be youth, and some adults, who do strange things — at times the strange things such as laughing, are clearly from a liberating encounter with God.

    At other times it is just people, often youth, who are trying to make something happen — sometimes because they are drunk or stoned on things other than the spirit. People in any church will not always be perfect. Also the kind of people that are drawn to the atmosphere at Bethel are drawn there because they are weird enough that nobody would let them into a more sedate church. They’d either leave due to alienation or be thrown out. Why? They are damaged people that the sedate church has no hope, tolerance, or answers for. At least in an environment like Bethel they stand a chance of getting something from God that can transform them. At most churches there would be no hope of that.

    If Bethel started kicking out the people that were out of line, leadership that made mistakes God is dealing with them about, the kids who went to services high or drunk, the people with real or desperate needs, then Bethel would settle down and become just like your favorite church. We live in a people pleasing society and most of us are sick from pleasing others, from others saying things to us to please us, and from all sorts of dishonesty that is socially acceptable. However we serve a God who, in the old testament, found the smell of burning flesh to be a sweet savor in his nostrils. God is clearly pleased in different ways from us. Therefore let’s not be so quick to judge that which is different in case we need that power someday to get our wife, husband, or child back from the brink of death.

    At Bethel my wife was healed instantly of an injured leg, and also from something that made it virtually impossible for us to have sex. We’d have it a couple times a year and it was no fun. We tried many medical solutions but as a husband I can tell you it sure is wonderful after a decade of marriage — to have sex often instead of only a couple times a year and with unbelievable complications when we did. Try having a married life without the intimacy of sex and then have that suddenly and miraculously restored. You people who are so small minded as to criticize that which you don’t understand — to the point where you’d want it stopped, and who would attempt to dissuade others from it — are unbelievably selfish. God is not sending anyone to hell because they seek healing from places where it is happening in abundance. People go to hell because of their attitude toward God — not because they got a little weird at a celebration of his miraculous power.

  • richard

    Just check out this 8 part documentary and see if it looks a little familiar.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ02I6QyagM

  • richard

    Just check out this 8 part documentary and see if it looks a little familiar.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ02I6QyagM

  • richard

    a href=#comment-1625 rel=nofollow@krametorg /a
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ02I6QyagM

  • richard

    a href=#comment-1625 rel=nofollow@krametorg /a
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ02I6QyagM

  • richard

    a href=#comment-1587 rel=nofollow@Pat /a
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ02I6QyagM

  • richard

    a href=#comment-1587 rel=nofollow@Pat /a
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ02I6QyagM

  • Linda

    a href=#comment-1627 rel=nofollow@alissa /a
    Give it to the Lord. Put your life in His hands in a deeper way. Be anxious for nothing but in prayer and supplication let your requests be known to God. If God wants you to stay there, He will make the new direction real to you; if not then maybe you are supposed to move on. Commit your ways to the Lord, and He shall direct your paths. If anyone wills to do the will of the Father, he will know whether the teaching is true or false. Not everyone is supposed to think like Bethel. There are ex-Bethel people all over Redding being a tremendous blessing where God has moved them, growing more than if they had stuck around, going with the flow. Maybe some offense drove them out. Who cares? Apparently all things worked together for good to all those involved. The Body of Christ has room for a lot of doctrinal diversity. No one but the Holy Spirit can tell you where you are supposed to be–He sets people in the Body as it pleases Him. Lighten up in your mind, press into God in your will and your spirit. Linda

  • Linda

    a href=#comment-1627 rel=nofollow@alissa /a
    Give it to the Lord. Put your life in His hands in a deeper way. Be anxious for nothing but in prayer and supplication let your requests be known to God. If God wants you to stay there, He will make the new direction real to you; if not then maybe you are supposed to move on. Commit your ways to the Lord, and He shall direct your paths. If anyone wills to do the will of the Father, he will know whether the teaching is true or false. Not everyone is supposed to think like Bethel. There are ex-Bethel people all over Redding being a tremendous blessing where God has moved them, growing more than if they had stuck around, going with the flow. Maybe some offense drove them out. Who cares? Apparently all things worked together for good to all those involved. The Body of Christ has room for a lot of doctrinal diversity. No one but the Holy Spirit can tell you where you are supposed to be–He sets people in the Body as it pleases Him. Lighten up in your mind, press into God in your will and your spirit. Linda

  • David

    Bill came to my town. I was leading worship elsewhere, but left after the worship to go hear him. At the end of the meeting he said that God had directed them as to what He would be healing first and he asked anyone with cronic pain to stand. 11 years of pain daily after a car crash vanished without anyone even laying hands on me. I love it when Jesus said…”if you don’t believe in me because of what i say, at least believe in me because of the miracles I do.” The gospel does not consist in words, but in power. I LOVE BETHEL! BLESS THE LORD. AND THANK YOU LORD FOR USING BILL TO HEAL ME. (yes, i believe bill healed me – and that i’m called to heal the sick too. think thats nuts? it isn’t. jesus told us to … “go…heal the sick” thankfully, bill just took him literally.)

  • David

    Bill came to my town. I was leading worship elsewhere, but left after the worship to go hear him. At the end of the meeting he said that God had directed them as to what He would be healing first and he asked anyone with cronic pain to stand. 11 years of pain daily after a car crash vanished without anyone even laying hands on me. I love it when Jesus said…”if you don’t believe in me because of what i say, at least believe in me because of the miracles I do.” The gospel does not consist in words, but in power. I LOVE BETHEL! BLESS THE LORD. AND THANK YOU LORD FOR USING BILL TO HEAL ME. (yes, i believe bill healed me – and that i’m called to heal the sick too. think thats nuts? it isn’t. jesus told us to … “go…heal the sick” thankfully, bill just took him literally.)

  • Michelle

    @Matt
    Exactly what I was thinking, Matt. There’s no fear of the Lord involved at ALL. Bethel just focuses on the feel-good aspect of God & doesn’t ever talk about sin or fear or reverence.
    Amen to what you’re saying.

    Also, as far as Bethel goes, I’ve heard two preachers preach from there & both prayed for wealth, as in money & said they deserved rewards from God because he owes them such for doing good works.
    Sorry, but it’s not biblically sound.

  • Michelle

    @Matt
    Exactly what I was thinking, Matt. There’s no fear of the Lord involved at ALL. Bethel just focuses on the feel-good aspect of God & doesn’t ever talk about sin or fear or reverence.
    Amen to what you’re saying.

    Also, as far as Bethel goes, I’ve heard two preachers preach from there & both prayed for wealth, as in money & said they deserved rewards from God because he owes them such for doing good works.
    Sorry, but it’s not biblically sound.