Comments on: Ali, The Muslim http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2007/09/29/ali-the-muslim/ The Blog of Donny Pauling: former porn producer, changed by Grace and Love... Wed, 11 Jan 2012 01:17:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Kevin http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2007/09/29/ali-the-muslim/comment-page-2/#comment-1793 Kevin Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:50:29 +0000 http://donnysramblings.com/2007/09/29/ali-the-muslim/#comment-1793 Some key points to "salve your wounds" Point 1 Donny is right in seeing the simple common ground before the "fork in the road" in the lines coming from Abraham. Point 2 Abraham (the Father of many nations) was neither Jew nor Muslim, and certainly not Christian. Point 3 There are many differences in how each group perceives God, but from a Christian standpoint, there are more denominations among Protestants (of which I am one) than there are Abraham religions, and there has to be points that some of us are still missing. Point 4 No one had any exposure to the true nature of God until the time of the Transfiguration when Jesus was standing in the river Jordan and the Holy Spirit descended upon him like a dove and God spoke down from the heavens, "This is my beloved Son, and I am truly pleased with him."(Matthew 3-16, NLT) And you know that know one understood what they were seeing then, as we only see it with the blessing of 20/20 hindsight afforded us by the Holy Bible. Point 5 Christianity is about relationships. As a salesman by trade, it is important for me in my work to establish familiarity very quickly as a sale is on the line. The same thing applies to witnessing, when the time is right, as there is nothing more "on the line" than someone's soul who has not received Christ (but I am in whole-hearted agreement with Donny's spiritual wisdom at the moment with Ali). BIBLICAL EXAMPLE: When Paul preached in Athens, (Acts, Chapter 17) he was distressed by all of the idols he saw there. He debated with Jews, God-fearing Gentiles, and Epicurean and Stoic philosophers. And when he got to the part of Jesus' death and resurrection, they took him to the Council of Philosophers, where he really BROKE IT DOWN, or as we say in the south, "Shelled down the corn." He starts with the COMMON GROUND in verse 22, again from the NLT: 22 So Paul, standing before the council,[a] addressed them as follows: “Men of Athens, I notice that you are very religious in every way, 23 for as I was walking along I saw your many shrines. And one of your altars had this inscription on it: ‘To an Unknown God.’ This God, whom you worship without knowing, is the one I’m telling you about. 24 “He is the God who made the world and everything in it. Since he is Lord of heaven and earth, he doesn’t live in man-made temples, 25 and human hands can’t serve his needs—for he has no needs. He himself gives life and breath to everything, and he satisfies every need. 26 From one man[b] he created all the nations throughout the whole earth. He decided beforehand when they should rise and fall, and he determined their boundaries. 27 “His purpose was for the nations to seek after God and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him—though he is not far from any one of us. 28 For in him we live and move and exist. As some of your[c] own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’ 29 And since this is true, we shouldn’t think of God as an idol designed by craftsmen from gold or silver or stone. 30 “God overlooked people’s ignorance about these things in earlier times, but now he commands everyone everywhere to repent of their sins and turn to him. 31 For he has set a day for judging the world with justice by the man he has appointed, and he proved to everyone who this is by raising him from the dead.” Point 6 It can be very intimidating for anyone who hasn't received Christ for us to come up to them with "all of the tiny nuances that we have learned in our own Christian walks", or our "studies of other religions in an attempt to spice up our witnessing", when mainly what we really need to impart to the world is God's majesty and sovereignty over our lives, recognition of our sinful nature and the undeserved favor of God through Christ Jesus, which is grace. All of the rhetoric that we get in the habit of, while it is enjoyable, only serves our own spiritual growth and understanding, and I fear that sometimes we spend too much time in the classroom when we should be "out there" loving one another as Jesus commanded. May God bless you and keep you as you continue to walk in his will. I have enjoyed myself here and feel blessed to call you Brothers in Christ. In Christ's Love, Grace, and Peace, Kevin Some key points to “salve your wounds”
Point 1 Donny is right in seeing the simple common ground before the “fork in the road” in the lines coming from Abraham.
Point 2 Abraham (the Father of many nations) was neither Jew nor Muslim, and certainly not Christian.
Point 3 There are many differences in how each group perceives God, but from a Christian standpoint, there are more denominations among Protestants (of which I am one) than there are Abraham religions, and there has to be points that some of us are still missing.
Point 4 No one had any exposure to the true nature of God until the time of the Transfiguration when Jesus was standing in the river Jordan and the Holy Spirit descended upon him like a dove and God spoke down from the heavens, “This is my beloved Son, and I am truly pleased with him.”(Matthew 3-16, NLT) And you know that know one understood what they were seeing then, as we only see it with the blessing of 20/20 hindsight afforded us by the Holy Bible.
Point 5 Christianity is about relationships. As a salesman by trade, it is important for me in my work to establish familiarity very quickly as a sale is on the line. The same thing applies to witnessing, when the time is right, as there is nothing more “on the line” than someone’s soul who has not received Christ (but I am in whole-hearted agreement with Donny’s spiritual wisdom at the moment with Ali).
BIBLICAL EXAMPLE: When Paul preached in Athens, (Acts, Chapter 17) he was distressed by all of the idols he saw there. He debated with Jews, God-fearing Gentiles, and Epicurean and Stoic philosophers. And when he got to the part of Jesus’ death and resurrection, they took him to the Council of Philosophers, where he really BROKE IT DOWN, or as we say in the south, “Shelled down the corn.” He starts with the COMMON GROUND in verse 22, again from the NLT:
22 So Paul, standing before the council,[a] addressed them as follows: “Men of Athens, I notice that you are very religious in every way, 23 for as I was walking along I saw your many shrines. And one of your altars had this inscription on it: ‘To an Unknown God.’ This God, whom you worship without knowing, is the one I’m telling you about.
24 “He is the God who made the world and everything in it. Since he is Lord of heaven and earth, he doesn’t live in man-made temples, 25 and human hands can’t serve his needs—for he has no needs. He himself gives life and breath to everything, and he satisfies every need. 26 From one man[b] he created all the nations throughout the whole earth. He decided beforehand when they should rise and fall, and he determined their boundaries.
27 “His purpose was for the nations to seek after God and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him—though he is not far from any one of us. 28 For in him we live and move and exist. As some of your[c] own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’ 29 And since this is true, we shouldn’t think of God as an idol designed by craftsmen from gold or silver or stone.
30 “God overlooked people’s ignorance about these things in earlier times, but now he commands everyone everywhere to repent of their sins and turn to him. 31 For he has set a day for judging the world with justice by the man he has appointed, and he proved to everyone who this is by raising him from the dead.”
Point 6 It can be very intimidating for anyone who hasn’t received Christ for us to come up to them with “all of the tiny nuances that we have learned in our own Christian walks”, or our “studies of other religions in an attempt to spice up our witnessing”, when mainly what we really need to impart to the world is God’s majesty and sovereignty over our lives, recognition of our sinful nature and the undeserved favor of God through Christ Jesus, which is grace.
All of the rhetoric that we get in the habit of, while it is enjoyable, only serves our own spiritual growth and understanding, and I fear that sometimes we spend too much time in the classroom when we should be “out there” loving one another as Jesus commanded. May God bless you and keep you as you continue to walk in his will.
I have enjoyed myself here and feel blessed to call you Brothers in Christ.
In Christ’s Love, Grace, and Peace,
Kevin

]]> By: Kevin http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2007/09/29/ali-the-muslim/comment-page-2/#comment-6207 Kevin Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:50:00 +0000 http://donnysramblings.com/2007/09/29/ali-the-muslim/#comment-6207 Some key points to "salve your wounds" Point 1 Donny is right in seeing the simple common ground before the "fork in the road" in the lines coming from Abraham. Point 2 Abraham (the Father of many nations) was neither Jew nor Muslim, and certainly not Christian. Point 3 There are many differences in how each group perceives God, but from a Christian standpoint, there are more denominations among Protestants (of which I am one) than there are Abraham religions, and there has to be points that some of us are still missing. Point 4 No one had any exposure to the true nature of God until the time of the Transfiguration when Jesus was standing in the river Jordan and the Holy Spirit descended upon him like a dove and God spoke down from the heavens, "This is my beloved Son, and I am truly pleased with him."(Matthew 3-16, NLT) And you know that know one understood what they were seeing then, as we only see it with the blessing of 20/20 hindsight afforded us by the Holy Bible. Point 5 Christianity is about relationships. As a salesman by trade, it is important for me in my work to establish familiarity very quickly as a sale is on the line. The same thing applies to witnessing, when the time is right, as there is nothing more "on the line" than someone's soul who has not received Christ (but I am in whole-hearted agreement with Donny's spiritual wisdom at the moment with Ali). BIBLICAL EXAMPLE: When Paul preached in Athens, (Acts, Chapter 17) he was distressed by all of the idols he saw there. He debated with Jews, God-fearing Gentiles, and Epicurean and Stoic philosophers. And when he got to the part of Jesus' death and resurrection, they took him to the Council of Philosophers, where he really BROKE IT DOWN, or as we say in the south, "Shelled down the corn." He starts with the COMMON GROUND in verse 22, again from the NLT: 22 So Paul, standing before the council,[a] addressed them as follows: “Men of Athens, I notice that you are very religious in every way, 23 for as I was walking along I saw your many shrines. And one of your altars had this inscription on it: ‘To an Unknown God.’ This God, whom you worship without knowing, is the one I’m telling you about. 24 “He is the God who made the world and everything in it. Since he is Lord of heaven and earth, he doesn’t live in man-made temples, 25 and human hands can’t serve his needs—for he has no needs. He himself gives life and breath to everything, and he satisfies every need. 26 From one man[b] he created all the nations throughout the whole earth. He decided beforehand when they should rise and fall, and he determined their boundaries. 27 “His purpose was for the nations to seek after God and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him—though he is not far from any one of us. 28 For in him we live and move and exist. As some of your[c] own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’ 29 And since this is true, we shouldn’t think of God as an idol designed by craftsmen from gold or silver or stone. 30 “God overlooked people’s ignorance about these things in earlier times, but now he commands everyone everywhere to repent of their sins and turn to him. 31 For he has set a day for judging the world with justice by the man he has appointed, and he proved to everyone who this is by raising him from the dead.” Point 6 It can be very intimidating for anyone who hasn't received Christ for us to come up to them with "all of the tiny nuances that we have learned in our own Christian walks", or our "studies of other religions in an attempt to spice up our witnessing", when mainly what we really need to impart to the world is God's majesty and sovereignty over our lives, recognition of our sinful nature and the undeserved favor of God through Christ Jesus, which is grace. All of the rhetoric that we get in the habit of, while it is enjoyable, only serves our own spiritual growth and understanding, and I fear that sometimes we spend too much time in the classroom when we should be "out there" loving one another as Jesus commanded. May God bless you and keep you as you continue to walk in his will. I have enjoyed myself here and feel blessed to call you Brothers in Christ. In Christ's Love, Grace, and Peace, Kevin Some key points to “salve your wounds”
Point 1 Donny is right in seeing the simple common ground before the “fork in the road” in the lines coming from Abraham.
Point 2 Abraham (the Father of many nations) was neither Jew nor Muslim, and certainly not Christian.
Point 3 There are many differences in how each group perceives God, but from a Christian standpoint, there are more denominations among Protestants (of which I am one) than there are Abraham religions, and there has to be points that some of us are still missing.
Point 4 No one had any exposure to the true nature of God until the time of the Transfiguration when Jesus was standing in the river Jordan and the Holy Spirit descended upon him like a dove and God spoke down from the heavens, “This is my beloved Son, and I am truly pleased with him.”(Matthew 3-16, NLT) And you know that know one understood what they were seeing then, as we only see it with the blessing of 20/20 hindsight afforded us by the Holy Bible.
Point 5 Christianity is about relationships. As a salesman by trade, it is important for me in my work to establish familiarity very quickly as a sale is on the line. The same thing applies to witnessing, when the time is right, as there is nothing more “on the line” than someone’s soul who has not received Christ (but I am in whole-hearted agreement with Donny’s spiritual wisdom at the moment with Ali).
BIBLICAL EXAMPLE: When Paul preached in Athens, (Acts, Chapter 17) he was distressed by all of the idols he saw there. He debated with Jews, God-fearing Gentiles, and Epicurean and Stoic philosophers. And when he got to the part of Jesus’ death and resurrection, they took him to the Council of Philosophers, where he really BROKE IT DOWN, or as we say in the south, “Shelled down the corn.” He starts with the COMMON GROUND in verse 22, again from the NLT:
22 So Paul, standing before the council,[a] addressed them as follows: “Men of Athens, I notice that you are very religious in every way, 23 for as I was walking along I saw your many shrines. And one of your altars had this inscription on it: ‘To an Unknown God.’ This God, whom you worship without knowing, is the one I’m telling you about.
24 “He is the God who made the world and everything in it. Since he is Lord of heaven and earth, he doesn’t live in man-made temples, 25 and human hands can’t serve his needs—for he has no needs. He himself gives life and breath to everything, and he satisfies every need. 26 From one man[b] he created all the nations throughout the whole earth. He decided beforehand when they should rise and fall, and he determined their boundaries.
27 “His purpose was for the nations to seek after God and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him—though he is not far from any one of us. 28 For in him we live and move and exist. As some of your[c] own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’ 29 And since this is true, we shouldn’t think of God as an idol designed by craftsmen from gold or silver or stone.
30 “God overlooked people’s ignorance about these things in earlier times, but now he commands everyone everywhere to repent of their sins and turn to him. 31 For he has set a day for judging the world with justice by the man he has appointed, and he proved to everyone who this is by raising him from the dead.”
Point 6 It can be very intimidating for anyone who hasn’t received Christ for us to come up to them with “all of the tiny nuances that we have learned in our own Christian walks”, or our “studies of other religions in an attempt to spice up our witnessing”, when mainly what we really need to impart to the world is God’s majesty and sovereignty over our lives, recognition of our sinful nature and the undeserved favor of God through Christ Jesus, which is grace.
All of the rhetoric that we get in the habit of, while it is enjoyable, only serves our own spiritual growth and understanding, and I fear that sometimes we spend too much time in the classroom when we should be “out there” loving one another as Jesus commanded. May God bless you and keep you as you continue to walk in his will.
I have enjoyed myself here and feel blessed to call you Brothers in Christ.
In Christ’s Love, Grace, and Peace,
Kevin

]]> By: supermannino http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2007/09/29/ali-the-muslim/comment-page-2/#comment-1792 supermannino Tue, 02 Oct 2007 21:56:46 +0000 http://donnysramblings.com/2007/09/29/ali-the-muslim/#comment-1792 Thanks for the response, Donny. I've abandoned all attempts to apply logic to this argument and instead tell you that I think that there seem to be two things at war here, things that I wish didn't ever have to be at war. Theology vs. People Yeah...I don't know why there's some kind of trigger that goes off in my mind when something seems "off" theologically. It's weird. It does. But, my heart resonates at your story about Ali. Sometimes I feel at war with my own theological thoughts and my desire to model Christ's love to the world. Bottom line: you showed God's love to a man who is hurting. Awesome. I'm just a random kid on a blog trying to analyze an act of love. Pretty dumb, I know. The theology of your statement about God and Allah might have rubbed me a weird way, but I don't want to be THAT GUY who always seems to miss the forest for the trees when it comes to acts of love. Those guys were Pharisees. And, I don't want to be like them. Keep loving. Keep looking for common ground. That's the way to reach the world. God blessed Abraham so that "the nations will be blessed." I don't think God meant that they could only be blessed through conversion. And, if that's the case, then that means that we do serve a God who wants to bless people who call Him by a different name. So...let's do that... Thanks for the response, Donny.

I’ve abandoned all attempts to apply logic to this argument and instead tell you that I think that there seem to be two things at war here, things that I wish didn’t ever have to be at war.

Theology vs. People

Yeah…I don’t know why there’s some kind of trigger that goes off in my mind when something seems “off” theologically. It’s weird. It does. But, my heart resonates at your story about Ali. Sometimes I feel at war with my own theological thoughts and my desire to model Christ’s love to the world. Bottom line: you showed God’s love to a man who is hurting. Awesome. I’m just a random kid on a blog trying to analyze an act of love. Pretty dumb, I know. The theology of your statement about God and Allah might have rubbed me a weird way, but I don’t want to be THAT GUY who always seems to miss the forest for the trees when it comes to acts of love. Those guys were Pharisees. And, I don’t want to be like them. Keep loving. Keep looking for common ground. That’s the way to reach the world.

God blessed Abraham so that “the nations will be blessed.” I don’t think God meant that they could only be blessed through conversion. And, if that’s the case, then that means that we do serve a God who wants to bless people who call Him by a different name. So…let’s do that…

]]> By: supermannino http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2007/09/29/ali-the-muslim/comment-page-2/#comment-6206 supermannino Tue, 02 Oct 2007 21:56:00 +0000 http://donnysramblings.com/2007/09/29/ali-the-muslim/#comment-6206 Thanks for the response, Donny. I've abandoned all attempts to apply logic to this argument and instead tell you that I think that there seem to be two things at war here, things that I wish didn't ever have to be at war. Theology vs. People Yeah...I don't know why there's some kind of trigger that goes off in my mind when something seems "off" theologically. It's weird. It does. But, my heart resonates at your story about Ali. Sometimes I feel at war with my own theological thoughts and my desire to model Christ's love to the world. Bottom line: you showed God's love to a man who is hurting. Awesome. I'm just a random kid on a blog trying to analyze an act of love. Pretty dumb, I know. The theology of your statement about God and Allah might have rubbed me a weird way, but I don't want to be THAT GUY who always seems to miss the forest for the trees when it comes to acts of love. Those guys were Pharisees. And, I don't want to be like them. Keep loving. Keep looking for common ground. That's the way to reach the world. God blessed Abraham so that "the nations will be blessed." I don't think God meant that they could only be blessed through conversion. And, if that's the case, then that means that we do serve a God who wants to bless people who call Him by a different name. So...let's do that... Thanks for the response, Donny.

I’ve abandoned all attempts to apply logic to this argument and instead tell you that I think that there seem to be two things at war here, things that I wish didn’t ever have to be at war.

Theology vs. People

Yeah…I don’t know why there’s some kind of trigger that goes off in my mind when something seems “off” theologically. It’s weird. It does. But, my heart resonates at your story about Ali. Sometimes I feel at war with my own theological thoughts and my desire to model Christ’s love to the world. Bottom line: you showed God’s love to a man who is hurting. Awesome. I’m just a random kid on a blog trying to analyze an act of love. Pretty dumb, I know. The theology of your statement about God and Allah might have rubbed me a weird way, but I don’t want to be THAT GUY who always seems to miss the forest for the trees when it comes to acts of love. Those guys were Pharisees. And, I don’t want to be like them. Keep loving. Keep looking for common ground. That’s the way to reach the world.

God blessed Abraham so that “the nations will be blessed.” I don’t think God meant that they could only be blessed through conversion. And, if that’s the case, then that means that we do serve a God who wants to bless people who call Him by a different name. So…let’s do that…

]]> By: Donny Pauling http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2007/09/29/ali-the-muslim/comment-page-1/#comment-1791 Donny Pauling Tue, 02 Oct 2007 19:04:26 +0000 http://donnysramblings.com/2007/09/29/ali-the-muslim/#comment-1791 I felt the discussions in this post deserved their own "article": <a href="http://donnysramblings.com/2007/10/02/allah-vs-god/" rel="nofollow">Allah Vs God</a> I felt the discussions in this post deserved their own “article”:

Allah Vs God

]]> By: Donny Pauling http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2007/09/29/ali-the-muslim/comment-page-1/#comment-6205 Donny Pauling Tue, 02 Oct 2007 19:04:00 +0000 http://donnysramblings.com/2007/09/29/ali-the-muslim/#comment-6205 I felt the discussions in this post deserved their own "article": <a href="http://donnysramblings.com/2007/10/02/allah-vs-god/" rel="nofollow">Allah Vs God</a> I felt the discussions in this post deserved their own “article”:

Allah Vs God

]]> By: Donny Pauling http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2007/09/29/ali-the-muslim/comment-page-1/#comment-1790 Donny Pauling Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:07:23 +0000 http://donnysramblings.com/2007/09/29/ali-the-muslim/#comment-1790 At Jeff in comment #22: We're both speaking the same language now. This whole thing started because of a sentence I used in my post in which I stated "The Muslims serve the God of Abraham..." That's all I meant by that. The sentence after that statement was this one: "During a conversation about the departure of Ali’s wife of many many years, it was not the time to discuss theological differences." The rest of this resulted from comments on that first sentence, and has been a slight bit frustrating because I am of the opinion that so much bickering in the world can be avoided if all of us, Muslim and Christian, remember to just communicate like we would if we were brothers (Christian and Muslim). <strong>Let me elaborate:</strong> Just a few months ago my brother and I were sitting around discussing our childhood. I was completely blown away at some of his perspectives of our parents during our younger years. He seriously believed some of the things that were coming out of his mouth, yet I don't remember any of the things he claimed happened. It was like he was talking about different people than the parents I knew. I didn't bother correcting him, because it was evident he was convinced these memories were true. As I've mentioned before, I hated Christians, but I never hated my parents. The negatives I associate with Christianity were the result of actions of people from my parents' churches. My brother, however, was bitter toward Mom and Dad for many things he attributed to them. I remember it being OTHER people, he remembers it being THEM. One of us is completely wrong, and if you ask me, it's HIM. He'd say the same thing about ME, however. In the case of the Muslims, looking at it from a logical perspective I cannot blame them for the way they feel about God. I have no doubts Ishmael felt like an unwanted outcast when Abraham's favor followed his younger, "legitimate" siblings. He must have been bitter, don't you think? Things must have snowballed to the place where all his memories of God were skewed by the hatred and bitterness. To cope with it, who can blame him for beginning to believe that God had actually passed on the "first born" favor to HIM, rather than those hated brothers? He passed his opinions on to his children, who passed it on to their children who... you get the picture. So now we have a group of people who know no better. So many Christians fail to realize we have the same "parents", but like the case with Daniel and I, one of us has our perspectives wrong. At some point I'll tell my brother about the loving parents I remember, and tell him where the negative feelings I had were rooted. Perhaps he'll begin remembering things the same way I do, and get rid of some of his bitterness toward Mom and Dad. Likewise, it would be so much easier to speak with Muslims from the perspective of realization that we both worship the same God, and that we'd like to give them our perspective of his grace and plan. It won't be enough for most of them, no doubt, but it would sure make it easier if all they have to accept is a "perspective shift", rather than the acceptance of an entirely different Creator. Know what I mean? At Jeff in comment #22:

We’re both speaking the same language now.

This whole thing started because of a sentence I used in my post in which I stated “The Muslims serve the God of Abraham…”

That’s all I meant by that. The sentence after that statement was this one:

“During a conversation about the departure of Ali’s wife of many many years, it was not the time to discuss theological differences.”

The rest of this resulted from comments on that first sentence, and has been a slight bit frustrating because I am of the opinion that so much bickering in the world can be avoided if all of us, Muslim and Christian, remember to just communicate like we would if we were brothers (Christian and Muslim).

Let me elaborate:

Just a few months ago my brother and I were sitting around discussing our childhood. I was completely blown away at some of his perspectives of our parents during our younger years. He seriously believed some of the things that were coming out of his mouth, yet I don’t remember any of the things he claimed happened. It was like he was talking about different people than the parents I knew. I didn’t bother correcting him, because it was evident he was convinced these memories were true.

As I’ve mentioned before, I hated Christians, but I never hated my parents. The negatives I associate with Christianity were the result of actions of people from my parents’ churches. My brother, however, was bitter toward Mom and Dad for many things he attributed to them. I remember it being OTHER people, he remembers it being THEM.

One of us is completely wrong, and if you ask me, it’s HIM. He’d say the same thing about ME, however.

In the case of the Muslims, looking at it from a logical perspective I cannot blame them for the way they feel about God. I have no doubts Ishmael felt like an unwanted outcast when Abraham’s favor followed his younger, “legitimate” siblings. He must have been bitter, don’t you think? Things must have snowballed to the place where all his memories of God were skewed by the hatred and bitterness. To cope with it, who can blame him for beginning to believe that God had actually passed on the “first born” favor to HIM, rather than those hated brothers? He passed his opinions on to his children, who passed it on to their children who… you get the picture.

So now we have a group of people who know no better.

So many Christians fail to realize we have the same “parents”, but like the case with Daniel and I, one of us has our perspectives wrong. At some point I’ll tell my brother about the loving parents I remember, and tell him where the negative feelings I had were rooted. Perhaps he’ll begin remembering things the same way I do, and get rid of some of his bitterness toward Mom and Dad.

Likewise, it would be so much easier to speak with Muslims from the perspective of realization that we both worship the same God, and that we’d like to give them our perspective of his grace and plan. It won’t be enough for most of them, no doubt, but it would sure make it easier if all they have to accept is a “perspective shift”, rather than the acceptance of an entirely different Creator.

Know what I mean?

]]> By: Donny Pauling http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2007/09/29/ali-the-muslim/comment-page-1/#comment-6204 Donny Pauling Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:07:00 +0000 http://donnysramblings.com/2007/09/29/ali-the-muslim/#comment-6204 At Jeff in comment #22: We're both speaking the same language now. This whole thing started because of a sentence I used in my post in which I stated "The Muslims serve the God of Abraham..." That's all I meant by that. The sentence after that statement was this one: "During a conversation about the departure of Ali’s wife of many many years, it was not the time to discuss theological differences." The rest of this resulted from comments on that first sentence, and has been a slight bit frustrating because I am of the opinion that so much bickering in the world can be avoided if all of us, Muslim and Christian, remember to just communicate like we would if we were brothers (Christian and Muslim). <strong>Let me elaborate:</strong> Just a few months ago my brother and I were sitting around discussing our childhood. I was completely blown away at some of his perspectives of our parents during our younger years. He seriously believed some of the things that were coming out of his mouth, yet I don't remember any of the things he claimed happened. It was like he was talking about different people than the parents I knew. I didn't bother correcting him, because it was evident he was convinced these memories were true. As I've mentioned before, I hated Christians, but I never hated my parents. The negatives I associate with Christianity were the result of actions of people from my parents' churches. My brother, however, was bitter toward Mom and Dad for many things he attributed to them. I remember it being OTHER people, he remembers it being THEM. One of us is completely wrong, and if you ask me, it's HIM. He'd say the same thing about ME, however. In the case of the Muslims, looking at it from a logical perspective I cannot blame them for the way they feel about God. I have no doubts Ishmael felt like an unwanted outcast when Abraham's favor followed his younger, "legitimate" siblings. He must have been bitter, don't you think? Things must have snowballed to the place where all his memories of God were skewed by the hatred and bitterness. To cope with it, who can blame him for beginning to believe that God had actually passed on the "first born" favor to HIM, rather than those hated brothers? He passed his opinions on to his children, who passed it on to their children who... you get the picture. So now we have a group of people who know no better. So many Christians fail to realize we have the same "parents", but like the case with Daniel and I, one of us has our perspectives wrong. At some point I'll tell my brother about the loving parents I remember, and tell him where the negative feelings I had were rooted. Perhaps he'll begin remembering things the same way I do, and get rid of some of his bitterness toward Mom and Dad. Likewise, it would be so much easier to speak with Muslims from the perspective of realization that we both worship the same God, and that we'd like to give them our perspective of his grace and plan. It won't be enough for most of them, no doubt, but it would sure make it easier if all they have to accept is a "perspective shift", rather than the acceptance of an entirely different Creator. Know what I mean? At Jeff in comment #22:

We’re both speaking the same language now.

This whole thing started because of a sentence I used in my post in which I stated “The Muslims serve the God of Abraham…”

That’s all I meant by that. The sentence after that statement was this one:

“During a conversation about the departure of Ali’s wife of many many years, it was not the time to discuss theological differences.”

The rest of this resulted from comments on that first sentence, and has been a slight bit frustrating because I am of the opinion that so much bickering in the world can be avoided if all of us, Muslim and Christian, remember to just communicate like we would if we were brothers (Christian and Muslim).

Let me elaborate:

Just a few months ago my brother and I were sitting around discussing our childhood. I was completely blown away at some of his perspectives of our parents during our younger years. He seriously believed some of the things that were coming out of his mouth, yet I don’t remember any of the things he claimed happened. It was like he was talking about different people than the parents I knew. I didn’t bother correcting him, because it was evident he was convinced these memories were true.

As I’ve mentioned before, I hated Christians, but I never hated my parents. The negatives I associate with Christianity were the result of actions of people from my parents’ churches. My brother, however, was bitter toward Mom and Dad for many things he attributed to them. I remember it being OTHER people, he remembers it being THEM.

One of us is completely wrong, and if you ask me, it’s HIM. He’d say the same thing about ME, however.

In the case of the Muslims, looking at it from a logical perspective I cannot blame them for the way they feel about God. I have no doubts Ishmael felt like an unwanted outcast when Abraham’s favor followed his younger, “legitimate” siblings. He must have been bitter, don’t you think? Things must have snowballed to the place where all his memories of God were skewed by the hatred and bitterness. To cope with it, who can blame him for beginning to believe that God had actually passed on the “first born” favor to HIM, rather than those hated brothers? He passed his opinions on to his children, who passed it on to their children who… you get the picture.

So now we have a group of people who know no better.

So many Christians fail to realize we have the same “parents”, but like the case with Daniel and I, one of us has our perspectives wrong. At some point I’ll tell my brother about the loving parents I remember, and tell him where the negative feelings I had were rooted. Perhaps he’ll begin remembering things the same way I do, and get rid of some of his bitterness toward Mom and Dad.

Likewise, it would be so much easier to speak with Muslims from the perspective of realization that we both worship the same God, and that we’d like to give them our perspective of his grace and plan. It won’t be enough for most of them, no doubt, but it would sure make it easier if all they have to accept is a “perspective shift”, rather than the acceptance of an entirely different Creator.

Know what I mean?

]]> By: Randy http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2007/09/29/ali-the-muslim/comment-page-1/#comment-1789 Randy Tue, 02 Oct 2007 16:45:35 +0000 http://donnysramblings.com/2007/09/29/ali-the-muslim/#comment-1789 I'm far from a religious scholar, but doesn't the Bible say that "God is all things to all people." I’m far from a religious scholar, but doesn’t the Bible say that “God is all things to all people.”

]]> By: Randy http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2007/09/29/ali-the-muslim/comment-page-1/#comment-6203 Randy Tue, 02 Oct 2007 16:45:00 +0000 http://donnysramblings.com/2007/09/29/ali-the-muslim/#comment-6203 I'm far from a religious scholar, but doesn't the Bible say that "God is all things to all people." I’m far from a religious scholar, but doesn’t the Bible say that “God is all things to all people.”

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