Donny's Ramblings

Here you go as promised:

“In the study of number theory we learn of something called modular arithmetic
(sometimes called modulo arithmetic or clock arithmetic). Modular arithmetic is a system
of arithmetic for integers where numbers “wrap around” after they reach a certain value –
the modulus. Some examples of operations modulo 12 are:
7 + 7 = 14 = 2 (mod 12)
5 * 7 = 35 = 11 (mod 12)
In such a system we can easily see that for a modulo less than 2 all arithmetic solutions
are equal to 1 or 0. So for a mod 1 situation we see that:
1 + 1 = 0 (mod 1)
To play with arithmetic for various modulo you can use this interactive java script:
”

I’m gonna take a page out of your book and cut paste, your original email will be in “”.

“Fine, just to move on, we can say, we take love on faith, however, there is still evidence. Perhaps the final leap requires a small amount of faith – but this is not akin to the faith it requires to believe the tribal god yahweh is the cause of the cosmos, when absolutely EVERY bit of evidence Yahweh gave (genesis) is wrong. Where as in my love scenario for my mom, I offer tons of evidence, and then take a tiny leap.”

If you’ve read past genesis you’d see that faith the size of a mustard seed can move mountains. I’m afraid all humans are capable of is a tiny leap of faith, if even that much. There’s evidence of Yahweh all over the place, it just takes a tiny leap of faith to find the Creator.

“Rofl, how is it supposed to take a long to prove a mathematical operation doesn’t equal a result? If your sister is on this research, as I politely asked before, please link me to it. I’ve never heard of such a thing, so I have no idea where to look. Although I find it absurd to believe. I mean if I have 1 apple on the counter, and add another apple, I have 2 apples! Good luck disproving that… (which has nothing to do with Yahweh)”

Of course, math and science are faith based. That is you theorize and then apply the scientific process. Faith leads to results. You believe it and then achieve it. Your apple analogy is cute, but doesn’t apply to the complexities math can reach. But I feel the same way, I eat one taco, then another, I’ve got two in my stomach, but numbers and equations are abstract and since you believe in wormholes, you’d understand that matter can be bent. Not so concrete. As far as Yahweh, He created all of this, it all has to do with Him. His signature is on all of it.

“What truth can’t be explained? I don’t know what you’re even referring to, to believe it in the first place. It’s not as if I’m building up walls here. I continue to ask what you’re talking about, and I don’t get an answer. As far as you knowing smarter people, that’s fine, so what? You shouldn’t make your arguments from authority. Think freely.”

I’m talking about Yahweh coming to earth in human form and proclaiming Himself as the Truth. The meaning behind everything and reason for everything. And people who actually study what you claim to know have point that are much more valid without being militant. They don’t have to cuss up a storm, or call other’s ideas silly because they’re lacking in the actual application of the knowledge you assume comprehension of. And I do make arguments from authority, so do you. You’ve quoted a lot of books you’ve read here. You really believe you’re thinking for yourself? Everyone references once in a while and you do it a whole lot. There’s nothing wrong with that. Besides, I’m a Christian who believes in the heavenly authority that is Yahweh based on evidence in creation and in my personal walk with Him.

“Where did I disprove myself? Which one of my “arguments” was disproven? Why do you just say “You’re wrong” without correcting me? How am I to know where my reasoning fell apart, if you won’t be kind enough to show me, as I’ve been doing for you?”

Well, for starters, you’ve got problems with faith based reasoning, but you’re high on math, science, and love. And you haven’t really shown me anything, only cherry picked ideologies you disagree with (and spelling, PLEASE!). That proves nothing.

“I’ll be happy to read it as something interesting to read, but it really has absolutely nothing to do with me and Johns conversation. And where I study is equally irrelevent. You seem to want to base your facts and knowledge off “smarter” people and institutions. I don’t do that. I think for myself. I take information from all over the world, when I can, but I reach final conclusions on my own – where it’s possible.”

It’s at the top of the post if you happened to miss it the first time. And, I’m not writing to you concerning your conversation with John. As I’ve mentioned, you addressed me first, so I addressed you back.
I really don’t care where you study, my sister was curious as you seemed like a hack to her. It doesn’t matter where you study to me. There’s a lot of great schools all over the nation.
And, now let me get this straight, you take others information, from all over the world no doubt, and then think for yourself? I’ve seen plenty of reiterations of other’s thinking in your posts. You really think your thinking for yourself? Maybe your opinions (final conclusions), but definitely not your presuppositions.

Chris, I think your a great person and I wish you the best. Good luck in your studies and take it easy.

David

And everyone else, I feel like I know you all now!
Take it easy and God bless (or Yahweh bless?).

its all good dude, i know they were genuine and i read them. and when i get time ill check out those links you sent. so whereabouts in florida do you live? i live on the central east side in vero beach, just south of melbourne. and just came back from a SKIM competition at the beach. the college ministry i am apart of just got a team together. two of our guys won first place in their division

and their success was attributed to both RATIONALITY and INFORMATION thus making their heats quite INTELLIGIBLE to the judges!

im a student at UCF, so Orlando. Just moved here for the college this year. Also I just quit my job at a christian bookstore to take on my school load

oh no doubt? i know some people up there at that school

do you know john, kyle or joe?

no for real some people i know go there

now did you really quit your job at a christian bookstore?

i was thinking you worked at a tarot card shop or something….

check it this is a paste of a bulletin i sent out on myspace and this is for you chris and anyone else who might be interested:

DEBATE news for the big brains peoples
Body:
get ready to start spazzin you freaking nerds!!!

check it, john lennox just recently debated christopher hitchens at the edinburgh fest so be on the lookout for that audio or that video suckas

lennox is also gettin some serious street cred …..for real. even dawkins was in the crowd at the hitchens debate watchin

also, lennox and dawkins will debate AGAIN exactly one year from the time of their first meeting in oct of 08 !!!

oh snap

and what will be cool is lennox will be in tampa at the cs lewis fest sometime in november. dudes we can plan a sick game of dungeons and dragons then head off over to tampa for that!!

best. weekend. ever.

life is mothertruckin good

your boy

I’m not sure if your name comment was facetious or not, but, no I don’t those people…massive campus, top 5 in the USA. So there are at least dozens of those names.

Yes I’ve been working at an ostensibly Christian bookstore since January. I’m a total book addict, unhealthy might I add So the job was good for me, because although it was Christian, we didn’t hold any bias in our “trading” process. So if the god delusion came along for instance, we’d buy it. under that condition, I scored tons of good literature, plus a lot of cheap classics.

I’ve watched all those people debate. Of course I don’t agree with Lennox, but he seems like a harmless, and very affable individual. Hitchens however…I love the mans history books, and erudition, but he’s a bit arrogant no doubt. Oh well, I’ll try to watch the debate if I have time.

John would you mind putting the link up to the debate pleasE?

David also had problems posting a link. He emailed asking that I post this one:

http://www.math.umbc.edu/~campbell/NumbThy/Class/BasicNumbThy.html

It won’t be long until this thread and its comments can be printed as a book. Out of curiosity I just printing it to PDF. Take a guess how many pages we’ve reached… okay, I’ll just tell you: 65 pages.

h crap dude. (donny)

please edit my grammar, not that i need it or anything

donny i was seriously entertaining the idea of putting a debate together, wouldnt that be sick? theres a unitarian church down the road and they always seem up for stimulating conversation, at least thats what the posts show on their signs. i know its a long shot, but how would you feel about putting something together somewhere? i think If God was behind it, it would happen regardless of the details.

id give my left lung to see dsouza and dawkins battle royale

chris yeah i was being faceshiousaliscious, thats a BIG J/K too so dont open a can of W.A. on me

so the book store is a christian themed book store or just christian owned?

you mentioned that you had a christian upbringing, any particular denomination your family involved in?

and im still debating the idea of engaging you once more for further discussion. i was walking the other day and all of these observations hit me concerning things id like to talk about. i saw this mentally handicapped guy walking towards me in the grocery store and i was contemplating his value…or the reasons one SHOULD value the handicapped.. i was trying to see if i was intuitively referencing some type of transcendent idea or if it was ONLY biologically based reason. my gut is telling me that principles are transcendent…thats why we can choose to stop following them whenever we wish but they are still “fixed”…..at the very least, in our minds.

for instance, take a group of friends. lets say they decide to be MORE honest with each other and stick to that ideal. so they set their mind on this idea of honesty and then bring their will into submission to its practice. wouldnt that be a transcendent idea they are tapping into?

what say you?

oh yeah and which debate did you want a link for?

there is no transcript, audio, or video so far for the lennox, hitchens debate…just some blogs about them by people who went. ONLY one was somewhat informative .

the way i found it was googling lennox hitchens debate

the fixed point foundation are the ones who put it on. they also did the previous one with lennox/dawkins and will also host the second lennox/dawkins debate in anniversary of wilberforce/huxley.

yeah i think hitchens is kind of a lazy debater more interested in being crass than being thorough. hed probably do better if it was in a written format.

ill tell you who is an absolutely TERRIBLE debater…daniel dennet. holy crap dinesh dsouza smeared that guy. he is just not good on his feet.

and since you are in o-town..like i was saying, in november lennox will be in tampa with the cs lewis society/foundation? im really wanting to go to that and meet the guy. i read his most recent book and its probably one of the best on that subject. very well done.

you can google that one too, it does take a little looking for it. i think i searched cs lewis society/ foundation john lennox tampa or something.

do you have a myspace chris?

I read Dawkin’s post on his message board. He has made it pretty clear in several post that he finds Dsouza as a person to be disgusting (Keep in mind he does not feel that way about lennox or mcgrath – maybe because they share the same politics…I dunno). And as a result, he doesn’t want to one, debate someone who isn’t a scientist, and two, someone he sincerely dislikes. You may take this as a sign of him copping out, oh well. I understand his position though, there are certain people I simply just don’t like, and choose to ignore, even if they question me. For instance you couldn’t get me on a stage to debate the iraq war with president bush, because I’d be fuming at the site of him, I may lose my logic, and become very emotional.

The store was run by an entire christian staff, with predominantly christian customers, closed on sundays, etc.(The store originated as a place where my boss sold his fellow church goers goods on amazon out of an office, and it grew from there) However, since most people like “trade” book stores, a secular crowd showed up over time(bringing secular novels and such), and my boss knew it would be financially myopic to ignore their basis. Now if you add up “secular” to “religious” books, the ratio is of course overwhelming in the latter.

My mothers side of the family is mostly catholic. As was she. She took me to some Unitarian churches though mostly, and some Catholic. She couldn’t make up her mind. One of my grade school friends took me to a southern baptist church every sunday for over a year. Another friend of mine, whose house i’d sleep over a lot at, would take us to a presbyterian one( I went there off and on for years). In middle school I also joined an evangelical youth group. I joined it because the group was comprised of a lot of my friends, but even at that age, after numerous visits I couldn’t tolerate the dogma, and eventually left(some of them were even jesting to my jewish friends that they were going to hell).

If you think your sympathy for the handicapped is “more than biology” all I can say is prove it. If we gave you an MRI during your contemplations, you’d see neurons firing, nothing new there. That doesn’t change the sincerity of your concern for the individual. Just like if we opened your brain and saw a bunch “magic and spirits” that wouldn’t change your sincerity for the individual. Occam’s razor of course tells us to jettison what’s superfluous, in this case, your idea of “something more” which you can’t articulate (yet?), can, in my “atheist outlook” be jettisoned. And of course plenty of animals do take care of their kin if they fall sick, or handicapped. This ranges from insects to primates. So I would have to ask where along our evolutionary lineage, did we “evolve” something more, and leave our cousins behind(my obvious answer is we didn’t)?

I don’t really understand your “friends” question. If they decide to be honest, they decide to be honest, nothing that can’t be accounted by materialism there. Of course typically I try to be honest in all my friendships And of course I try to be honest to people I’m apathetic towards, or dislike. I usually just flat out speak my mind.

I was hoping for a video version of the Lennox hitchens debate. If it ever comes out please post it. I’m sure it may, they typically take a few days. Although I have zero interest in reading blog excerpts on the debate.

I’ve seen Hitchens in some debates, excel far beyond my expectations (Like one he did in the freedom fest). In others, like the most recent one with Dinesh and Prager, he seemed very lazy. It probably depends on how much alcohol he has consumed before hand(and during?).

I agree, the Dennett debate was awful. Now I’ve read some of Dennett’s books – not breaking the spell though, not interested. The man is a genuine genius, but as you acknowledge, he’s not quick on his feet. He needs a pen, paper, and time to exercise his philosophical mind. He should of debated Dinesh in written format, then sparks might fly.

I’ve kind of made it a point not to buy a single atheist vs theist book this year. As I said I was a pretty atheistic/agnostic person from childhood. The “new atheist” movement was a little fun for me to read, because as Dawkins says it proverbially made it okay for me to come out of the closet. I was just happy to see that other people had the same thoughts I had, and I wasn’t “alone.” Although even when I am alone in an argument, it doesn’t deter me

No I don’t use any my space or face books.

i hope i get more time to engage on some things i have been thinking about

or you could default to deism

meet you half way son!

chris let me ask you..

so what happened during hitlers atrocities can all be attributed to neurons firing off? of course youd see neurons firing off because thats a byproduct of whats happening. and as you said, youd see them regardless of the action or thought taking place. therefore, neurons cannot tell me a thing about right and wrong. you give those processes WAY too much credit man.

what my point to you is…lets say you are making a case about the atrocities of hitler to someone that belongs to the third reich, or to someone who does not care and obviously does NOT get it. well, how would you MAKE them get it? on what “material” basis would you have to say that what they did was evil…and what are you referencing to tell them this? the complete idiots guide to neuron miss-firings? and more-over, id also like for you to provide the “material” basis that a court of law or a war crimes tribunal would need to prosecute this. please, prove to me by your materialism, that what hitler did was wrong.

you cant. and i think that deep down, you know that its 100% b.s. you wouldnt have to reference anything because its all intuitive. and dont even begin to tell me that all of my neurons are telling me this. then if that is the case, then neurons are also telling scientists to go study quantum mechanics and astrophysics..what on earth does that have to do with survival of the fittest? thats a fairy tale chris.

and that is why theism is so much more well rounded for what we experience as a description of reality then materialism will ever be. there is too much going on in reality then its mere mechanics, which seems to be the only thing that materialism can address. after that it is grossly lacking as an explanation…mostly because it wears blinders.

this has got to be the silliest thing I’ve ever read . I’m rushing out the door to class though, I may not be able to reply until tomorrow morning or late tonight.

Well I see you’re playing the same trite game as always. Implying there is “something more” without ever explaining what that is. Great, keep living in a universe filled with “magic” while claiming it’s a coherent, rational, deterministic cosmos.

“so what happened during hitlers atrocities can all be attributed to neurons firing off?”

This is a very broad and frankly ignorant statement. I mean neurons may fire for him to “drop bomb” when he’s over London, but obviously the atrocity comes from the bomb, and the subsequent destruction is causes.
“ of course youd see neurons firing off because thats a byproduct of whats happening.”
Fundamentally wrong. The by product is the dropped bomb, the neurons fired first.

I see within your first paragraph you try to pull some kind of bait and switch, and I’m not falling for it. You’re opening sentence ask if atrocities can be credit to Hitler’s brain. The answer is obviously yes, plenty of people are born “sociopathic,” “mentally retarded,” “aspbergers,” or “schizophrenic.” These are conditions that can be viewed in an MRI, and their particular personality can be narrowed to which parts of the brain are more or less active. In Hitler’s case, I don’t know his brian structure, but it’s no leap to say it’s different. Anyway you then close the paragraph with

“ and as you said, youd see them regardless of the action or thought taking place. therefore, neurons cannot tell me a thing about right and wrong. you give those processes WAY too much credit man. “

Well that’s an entirely different question, right from wrong, isn’t it? Let’s continue with part one. If you’re seeing Hitler’s brain doesn’t account for Hitler’s decision making, what does? Seriously, I’m cursing for emphasis here, and not anger – I’ve asked you this mother fucking question over five times now. Put up, or please, shut up. I’d love to know how Yahweh helps account for this, because with his omniscience, he’s quite the malevolent jerk to allow for Hitler to exist in the first place.

Alright I see your second paragraph covers your erroneous conclusion from your first. How would I personally make a case? I would simply say, although Hitler has some kind of biased that all Jews are evil, we shouldn’t take the stereotype of some, to apply to every individual. There are plenty of wicked/benevolent blacks, whites, atheist, christians, pagans, etc. Now since the Jews aren’t consenting to their death, and their end of life is being forced upon them, based on an erroneous stereotype, that is where I would say what he did was “wrong.” I always follow the philosophy that if you’re going to do something to someone, have consent. Also, mitigate pain at all cost. Because I’ve experienced pain, I’m aware that it isn’t pleasant, and therefore, I try not to pass it on to others. Your court of law thing is a fine analogy. Our laws are not seriously based on Yahwehs teachings. After all we don’t stone deflowered women on their honeymoon, and shellfish is legal, as in sodomy, and abortion. Most of our laws are argued in a very secular fashion, we don’t live in a theocracy. Now of course the Nazis and the Japanese were tried in the Nuremberg trials, and they were condemned with various sentences pending secular verdicts. For instance we executed roughly 900 Japanese for torturing US troops. Why would we do this? Because we all know pain sucks, and we don’t want to be tortured. The pain one feels during torture is again material, and can be entirely elucidated through a material explanation.

Now if you really think the bible would of stopped Hitler, that’s absurd. He had the Vatican’s consent, and often quoted scripture, and referred to Christ, and sometimes “providence” as his guiding light(If he was actually a Christian though I doubt it, but there is plenty of private talks where he refers to Providences plan for him, so he was at the very least, a deist). The bible has been used for good and bad, so clearly, since Christians haven’t reached a consummated definition that ALL christians agree on, you can’t really say the bible is the answer, because it isn’t.

If all your neurons aren’t telling you this, what is? I ask again, and again, and again. You can type exactly what you’re typing under an MRI, and we will have our answer, there is no ghost in the machine.

Now you ask why do scientist do science, it isn’t beneficial for survival. In once sense it is, I mean studying the subatomic allows for breakthroughs in chemistry which allows for breakthroughs in medicine. Studying the rotation of planets does allow for predictions in weather patterns and seasons, which can augment agriculture (which is why astronomy was first a study) Regardless, the question I really see here is “Why do humans spend their time doing pointless creative things, like music, dance, etc.” Well before I address humans, I want to point out, almost all animals “kill time.” For instance my dog spends roughly 1-2 hours a day wrestling with my other dog. This isn’t beneficial, they are just killing time. We all live in a 24 hour day, and we don’t need 24 hours to acquire sustenance to live. My dog also spends another hour a day trying, and mostly succeeding, in getting me to rub her belly at night. This isn’t beneficial to anything, but I’m sure it feels good.

If you put an elephant next to a canvas with paint, surprisingly, it will paint a picture. If you give a monkey a drum set, he will play it. If a lion gives birth to kids, they will wrestle all throughout life. As I said, we all have 24 hours in a day, but we don’t all need all 24. So it’s perfectly rational for us to of evolved the ability to “kill time.” Especially since it appears countless animals do as well. Perhaps some of it is a “by product” of earlier evolution like our tonsils, tail bone, appendix, etc. If you say something more, I ask what?

Hahahahahha and now the unfounded, untenable, and frankly un argued conclusion. That is why theism is best? Wtf are you talking about? None of what you said was argued with theism. You just asked me a couple grade school science questions, that I answered and said vuala! Yahweh is the cause of the cosmos!

How have you reached the conclusions that because what Hitler did was wrong, and because John Doe does quantum physics in his spare time, Yahweh created the cosmos? This is a superfluous explanation. Materialism has, and continues to account for everything, and you’re running out of gaps to stuff Yahweh into.

“ there is too much going on in reality then its mere mechanics”
And yet earlier you said all of reality was explain by it rational and coherent mechanics. Now you imply more. I ask you AGAIN, what the cunt licking bitch ass is it?

You should enjoy this article:
“Memory is entirely material”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/05/science/05brain.html?hp

very soon i will do my best to show you what the C.L.B.A. it is

word is bond son

so i wonder, if we zoom in super close to those memory cells, will we see the actual memories being shown on like a projector or something?

until then let this tie you over

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Lg9wshGbDY&feature=related

uhm no you won’t see projector memories. On that same token when you take LSD and the walls turn purple, your pupils don’t. Chemical reactions baby.

So you again won’t tell me what something more is…such a waste.

LOL is this song a joke? this has got to be satire right….puppets! you’re quite right, it’s very childish to believe santa is looking out for you.

Virtue in the brain:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-09-09-brain-scan-emotions_N.htm

i really dont think you shouldve posted that under the guise that its conclusive when half of the people interviewed feel that its definitely not.

thats not good materialism

though, there was one thing i noticed in a quote that you should consider:

“says Australian neuroethicist Neil Levy of the University of Melbourne by e-mail. “It is only rarely that we learn something interesting about the mind, rather than the brain, from fMRI.”

notice that there is a difference between the brain and the mind. which you dont seem to think that there is. this is a perfect example of why you cannot attribute EVERYTHING hitler did to his “brain”. and this also suggests mind over matter, which in fact a court of law presupposes. otherwise how on earth could they prosecute someone if its their brains fault? and how often does the insanity defense work? decision making is done in the mind not in the brain, its a conscious effort, i dont care what you say.

anyways, im going to have a reply for you on the other stuff, ive just been busy.

yeah it’s a very explicit way of reinforcing what one is talking about. Obviously I say “I saw the rainbow” not “my eye balls retained the light given off by the specific spectrum of said rainbow.” Our eyes create the effect of sight, and our brain creates the effect of mind. But there isn’t anything supernatural here. Just as if you take a saw to the portion of my brain that governs sight, even if I retain my eye balls I’ll still be blind. And of course the brain contains a specific section for memory of faces, memory of sounds, memory of smell etc. All of which are documented, and fall apart when damaged.

I just have absolutely no idea what you imply by “something more.” It’s not as if mental retards are born with identical brains to einstein and beethoven.

the human mind is a paradox. thats why what you are telling me is true and yet it isnt the whole picture. much like light being a particle and ALSO a wave. i just dont think that we can totally get our minds around how it works, though science is trying to understand it. i 100% agree with you that when those things happen to the brain you get those results. but again..its still not all that simple..it isnt my neurons that make me do anything.it is ME that is making me do it…my mind/ conscious self has control over what MY decision making is(unless i am insane) my brain has control over my subconscious and also body regulation…. and that without one conscious thought on my part. did your neurons make you go to college? did donnys neurons make him decide to quit porn? and you can also ask: did you consciously make your heart beat or your lungs expand?

in some very important regards, mind IS over matter.