McCain
Yes on 2
Yes on 4
Yes on 8

Those are the key votes. Once you have made those choices, you can relax and study the other issues and candidates and make your choices.

- David

Dear Donny,
Just passed by to see how the “debates” are going and see that you perhaps are in a dilemma of sorts. Studying nursing as of recently, when dealing with ethical questions as per nursing care and how you can’t impose your views, the issue of moral dilemma came up about having to care even when patient choices go against your values or codes of ethics. I believe your right about the possibility that you may be “kicking against the goads” (my inclusion) with your past attitudes against the church and that may be influential in this voting process.

Certainly some of the arguments you’ve presented are valid arguments in favor of how you have been leaning. Roe v Wade, qualifications for the job of president, the Republican party has been all over the place in the last few years, essentially losing their backbone to special interests, or issues with Bush policy and where we are with the war, etc. It reminds me of a dilemma I had many years ago, when in a relationship with a girl from church and how in my inner most heart felt that she was not who God had for me, I was confronted with it, when in a Sunday school class they were speaking of Israel and some of the choices they made and the end results.

Anyway, I don’t remember the details of the class discussion or teaching, but what I do remember was how the instructor posed this question: “sometimes it is not a choice between what is right and wrong, but rather between what is good and what is better”. The girl was a church girl, everything on the surface would appear to be fine, but my heart was not at peace. My flesh wanted this relationship, but my spirit knew it was not God’s best, even though I couldn’t clearly determine that at face value, only in my heart. I look back then and remember that I felt God had His thumb on the center of my heart and I could not get out from under it. It was there in the morning, there all day and there at night. I was not striving for His best, and my soul and spirit knew it, I just had to catch up with it in my actions and decisions…even that was a dilemma…I was double minded, unstable in all my ways.

However, when I consider what appears to be usurping activity on the part of the Democratic party, not that the Republican party isn’t beneath that too, but based on Obama’s history in votes or no votes, based on his continuous historical record of those with whom he has associated himself with, both politically and spiritually, whether communism (in his late teens), socialism (with Ares, his professorship in college, community “organizing” and motivations), spiritualism/very left leaning politically (Wright, Farrakhan, Pelosi, Biden, etc.), the denials, then acknowledgements but trivializing it to mean nothing or for the time being distancing himself, discontent with our Constitution, and on so many fronts, but in hidden agendas, essentially possibly giving the internal enemies of our country finally a voice and power to change our country into something else…I fear the worse. And this is no fear tactic on my part but a very real reality as I’ve seen so much of our foundations being disabled and slowly corroded away on so many fronts, primarily by those who want to shrug off authority…namely God’s authority, maybe because of the religious legalism they’ve experienced…maybe a little of what you’ve felt in your heart of hearts being disgruntled by so much of what you’ve seen that really isn’t God, at least in a religious realm?.

Sure I know our country is in a mess, but to offer as those of past centuries did, with Marx, Hitler, etc in actually potentially converting our nation into something that would essentially change our country and its very foundations. I think of Samuel’s day, when Israel was not content with Samuel’s sons as the future priests of the nation because of their failures and sins, they cried for a king, essentially changing the nation from considering God as the leader of His people through men of God into Kings who may or may not have kept them close to God. Sure God prophetically said they would do that but would it be right? We’re a far cry from following God in this country, but scripture warns against what would happen if we silence the spiritual voice of it…and though the façade of the Democratic party this campaign has tried to constantly verbalize “religious” talk, with “Jesus would want us to be Good Samaritans” –Hillary and “It’s our Moral Obligation to help the poor” –Obama, to possibly try and sway the last remnant of our nation, the religious right, to go their way, when all of this time for years they have tried to silence Christianity especially in all quarters, I see it as a blinding or snow job over the multitudes.

Once they have what would seem to be ultimate power, who can say no to them. It’s no less the talk in favor of the majority poor, to blame the rich for our troubles, like Hitler with the Jews. We’re certainly poised to need a change from so much corruption, but I would hope that the change we need isn’t as unknown as the “To Serve Man” book in the twilight zone episode when they couldn’t figure out what the Martians intended until they found out that what it meant was that is was a cook book, and man was who was going to be served…as a meal.

Anyway, I’m not sure I’m making any sense or that I running on some talking points or that any of this matters to you as per your decision, but definitely pray about this. McCain certainly is no conservative or the best choice for the Republicans, but between both McCain/Palin and Obama/Biden, a choice between what is good and what is best, at this time, I believe is on the Republican side. They’re not perfect, but their not hiding at least what they intend for our country and that is to not do a total overhaul of it, because there are good things about our country. However, what is bad or poor planning for us, is everything the Democrats or at least liberals seem to want us as a country to accept, both morally, Constitutionally, foundationally, etc.

Ever since the Democrats came into Congress, gas prices went up, and with all of their shuffling around to remedy it, it took care of itself by “the people”. Likewise, the mortgage crisis as far as people who shouldn’t have had mortgages in the first place, were placed there by the kind of deregulation that permitted them to get there…by who? Democrats trying to help the poor get what they really couldn’t afford…at whose cost…all of us. I’ve even heard that some of that influence was also funded by Acorn, for whom Obama has been linked. Sure, the Bush admin. Should have not given in, but now they look like the scapegoats for poor policy, but it should have been looked at realistically. The same reason that so many poor people winning lotteries fail and lose it all? Maybe they don’t know how to handle it? Scriptural principle:
Luke 16:10
He who is faithful in a very little [thing] is faithful also in much, and he who is dishonest and unjust in a very little [thing] is dishonest and unjust also in much.
Luke 19:17
And he said to him, Well done, excellent bond servant! Because you have been faithful and trustworthy in a very little [thing], you shall have authority over ten cities.
I’d believe also, that the rich, for the most part, having been wise in money handling, create endowments, funds, etc. to allocate their excesses to help those in need as permitted by IRS as opposed to having them give up more for a corrupt government that doesn’t usually know very well how to manage let alone efficiently distribute “the wealth” anyway. I know, because, as a former middle class earner but now as a current recipient of Social Services and how futile the deep hole is, as they don’t encourage one to get out of it, but like debt can, keep them depending on it, rather than helping them get out of dependence…and who is funding it? It comes from taxes paid by the middle class to the wealthy, the very people who are being targeted for more taxes. Certainly not from the poor, who can get back all of their taxes. Oh, and because of “resources” like my 401k, I can’t access all of the benefits of Social Services, even though I’ve paid into Social Services through my taxes for nearly 30 years. Like companies that don’t pay their employees their pensions even after they paid into them, Social Services wants me to give up my little retirement fund, losing some to taxes and penalties for early withdrawal, only to have to come back to Social Services when I do finally retire, because Social Security won’t be enough…at least that’s what their saying. So I will be depending on the government again…going through what I’m going through right now, do I really want to be doing that when I’m old and can’t work?

Well, let me shut up and let you pray about it. What do I know? I do know that ultimately, all of this how ever it goes, will be leading us to eventually have to deal with a universal world order, financially, spiritually and anti-Christ, etc. It will indeed all work better…at least for a little while…maybe 7 ½ years.

Thanks for hearing me out.

Donny, if you haven’t read these articles yet, maybe this will persuade you. from the balanced coverage of foxnews.
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/27/radio-interview-obama-laments-lack-supreme-court-ruling-redistributing-wealth/
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/28/la-times-refuses-release-tape-obama-praising-controversial-activist/
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/28/obama-affinity-marxists-dates-college-days/

I think if you strip away republican and democrat, seperate Bush and policy rhetoric it will be clear. The most important thing is character. Can you trust the person who is president to have good judgement and good character and try to make the right decisions. You can judge a person alot by his acquaintences and who he surrounds himself with. They often reveal more about the person and what they believe than anything that person says. Who are they around when no one is watching, who are their close friends, what decisions do they make when they are not running for anything?

Donny: I love your humble spirit before God!!!! You can count on Him to direct your thoughts and decisions. What’s more is HE is Sovereign Creator Almighty God and has all of this totally under His control. I’m praying for you as well as myself in seeking only HIS will in this election.

I want so badly to try to steer you toward the candidate I personally voted for, but I’m not going to do it.

Instead, I am just praying that God will grant you the clarity and peace that you seek. I think you have approached this decision with an open mind and a sense of the gravity of this election.

I am confident that He is capable of guiding your hand as you fill in the bubble on your ballot, even if the candidate who gets your vote is different from the candidate who got mine.

Donny~

I’m pretty sure you’ve already done this but I’ll put it out there just in case you, or some of your readers and friends, HAVEN’T!

Write down the issues you care about. Decide where you stand on those issues. Research where the candidates stand on those issues. Vote accordingly!

Let’s look at one issue that’s been discussed quite often here on your blog; abortion.

I have put quite a bit of thought into this issue lately. I never really considered whether or not either party was playing shell games with conservatives until I read your thoughts on it.

For me, it basically comes down to what I believe; abortion is murder. Still, everyday I realize, more and more, that life is never black and white. What about rape or incest? What about a threat against the Mother’s life?

On one hand I see abortion as “playing God”, just like assisted suicide or even the death penalty. But another side of me wonders if it’s un-caring to tell that woman, “You’ll live through that delivery if it’s in God’s will”. While that is absolutely true, it just sounds…cold.

When it comes down to it, I still think it’s playing God and don’t agree with it being legal.

In doing my research on this ONE of DOZENS of issues, I see that, according to barackobama.com, Senator Obama, “….has been a consistent champion of reproductive choice and will make preserving women’s rights under Roe v. Wade a priority as President.”

Then, heading over to johnmccain.com, I see that Senator McCain, “…believes Roe v. Wade is a flawed decision that must be overturned…….”

Now, regardless of whether or not EITHER candidate can or will do anything about the issue (cause how can we know that for sure) I must decide how each candidate’s belief lines up with MY belief on the issue.

Now repeat this process 100 more times! LOL

Obviously some issues are considerably more important than others, so some should be weighed more heavily. We have to base our decision on the issues important to us.

Pray. Think (cause God doesn’t want us to check our brain at the door). Decide. Vote!

Donny, when all is said and done, you answer to no one but Father, so you owe an explanation to only Him. And He already KNOWS your explanation!

Love you brother!

Hi Donny,

Hats off for your vulnerable and humble wrestling with the issues as well as with your own demons.

I too am from a legalistic upbringing that turned me away from God (who wooed me back, when I had no place else to go). Friends have told me that “torgiveness is when you stop wishing for a better past.” Well, that’s a nice thing to strive for but easier said than done. I also know that as long as I am in rebellion, I am still controlled by the people or institutions that I am rebelling against. It helps me to remember that; but there is also the very real pain and outrage. Perhaps it will not be healed South of Heaven?

I appreciate you taking your vote so seriously! As a fellow Californian, it seems like it’s all a done deal anyhow. Yet, there are also some critical propositions on the ballot. Prop. 8 alone is reason enough to go to the polls as it will gravely affect our lives, the lives of our children and the way churches will get to operate in the future.

I came to this country from Europe 26 years ago. I reveled in the religious freedom, the freedom of expression/speech, and the freedom to pursue one’s dreams as an individual with far less government intervention and taxation and so much more opportunity than in Europe.

I am dumbfounded why Americans are so ready to give all of that away. In my short years here, I have seen political correctness (or “tolerance” meaning endorsing certain agendas) gagging the free expression of the vast majority of mainstream Americans to placate a few. Religious freedom is eroding as we are afraid to speak up. Righteousness is readily adandoned by us Christians all too ready to compromise and fit in. We abandon our spouses and have our abortions (or at least fail to take a stand) just like everybody else. We call for the government to do our charitable works for us (“faith-based initiatives being the last catch phrase for this). And economically, it seems like Americans can’t wait for more heavy handed government interventions, redistributions, entitlements and vanishing of opportunities and creativity. Our greed, entitlement and laziness has created a huge immigration problem on top of it all (not to mention a topsy turvy economy which seems to whiplash on a daily basis).

I think it’s safe to say that America is at a very serious juncture. No matter who will be in the White House, times will be changing and many of us will be hurting. IMHO the lesser of two evils is the best we can hope for. I dread the idea of a homogenous and unopposed majority ruling the legislative as well as the executive (and pretty soon the legislative) branch. In these tough times, that is just way too dangerous, particularly if one considers the radical plans and agendas that have already been expressed.

No matter who is elected, I am not very optimistic when I look at where we are. What gives me hope is that God is in charge. The Bible NEVER encourages us to put our hope in governments. And here we are, asking for more and more government. I think we have been plenty betrayed by the power mongers on either side of the aisle. Regardless, I believe we are asked to vote for representatives of character, conscience and as much adherence to godly values as we possibly can. Other than that we can only pray for our government, that they will leave us Christians alone so that we can live a message of grace and truth. And yes, we often have to fight our way out of the church door to do so.

I still wish that the church of my youth and my parents’ example had taught me more joy and freedom in Christ. But if nothing else, they instilled in me the truth of God and led me to the only place worth turning to. Other than that, all I can do is vote my conscience and hope for the lesser evil in government. They are not called to be salt and light; I am.

May God speak to us as voters and as a nation–not only on election day!

“Blessed are the poor in spirit, blessed are the meek. For theirs shall be the kingdom that the power mongers seek.”

Dear Donny,
We love you and appreciate your honesty and serious considerations. It makes me think too.

Just to touch for a moment on Kenni B’s comment about abortion and the incest/rape/mother’s life factor that is so often used because of the “heart/unfair” aspect which would appeal to anyone. The left so often uses that argument, which perhaps makes up less than 1-10% of the unwanted pregnancies that get aborted as pregnancies do not always come from such circumstances, but yet the argument is used to defend the other 90-99% of abortions.

Likewise, “Bush’s Tax Cuts benefit the rich” comments made by Obama and Biden also sound true, but are only half true. The reality is that it is the middle class (who Biden and Obama keep saying that McCain says nothing about) to the very rich that pay taxes. Even with all of their loopholes, investments, write-offs, donations, etc. these so called rich do indeed pay the 80% or more of all taxes collected. Thus, if there are any tax cuts that will benefit anyone, it should indeed be to those who pay taxes. The other lower % of people who can and do get back all of their taxes through standard deductions, etc. should not even consider tax cuts as they don’t pay any taxes…ultimately. And then to get some from those who have had to work for their income, whatever work that may mean, still will have to shell out more for those who pay no taxes….

Anyway, in both scenarios, what is said sounds right, but what is true never gets out there…as long as the ones who are saying keep implying what would appeal to the greatest mass of people…these people who will most likely vote liberal are really being patronized and that is being disrespectful to them and it also belittles them.

One thing is poor policies and administration; another is completely changing what and who America is, especially in stealth mode.

If this is the beginning of God’s permission for things to change as all of the chess pieces are being laid out for a “check mate” historically, or like in baseball, all of the bases are loaded, then so be it, but on the other side of the spectrum, I want to be a part of the counter balance that holds things at bay so that more people have an opportunity to hear the Good News, before our Lord’s return. Is it really this serious, I think so, because every inch that is lost to shrugging off godly reasoning for a more relaxed and liberal scenario (and I don’t mean from religious legalism, but rather biblical righteousness), the close we move to a day when God will say “enough”.

The left is mad about having the election 8 years ago “stolen” from them as they say, though all of the proof is otherwise, they have been setting things up with a vengeance and have hated the “red” on the map. They even have patronized the conservative base with the “god” talk this campaign. McCain is not the conservative ideal, especially always having been at odds with the Republican Party himself. So there’s a lot to consider, a lot to weigh, a lot to think about. But neither has Obama or Biden respected the office of President or Bush, and have misunderstood the role of Vice President as per Cheney…I think of David’s respect for Saul, despite Saul’s attempts at killing David. With all that Bush has had to deal with as per the left, I feel he has withheld disrespectful speech of the left or persons, and has maintained respect, though not perfect, he’s someone we have been directed to pray for by scripture as our leader, that God would give him wisdom, he has sought to protect us, even with incorrect intelligence info, and so forth… Don’t just consider a particular policy or what have you, but as DT mentions, character and those with whom you surround yourself with…and I don’t mean Warren Buffet, or the Hollywood elite, but those who would influence one from the core, is important. All this to consider and all this to pray about…God is indeed sovereign and though your one vote may not make the difference, on the other hand, it may very well make all of the difference. I am so glad that is was Bush in the White House on 9-11, I can’t even guess what Gore would have done…and yes, your vote may be the very one to tip the scale. But your prayer should clarify and help you make that choice.

God bless you brother as you pray and make that choice.

is character the most important thing? or is a person who can lead efficiently the most important thing? it’s tough to know.

we need someone who can lead, not necessarily someone who agrees with us on every issue of character.

I agree with you, Stephen.

By the way, did anyone other than me watch the 30 minute Obama commercial tonight? If so, what’d ya think? Here on the west coast it airs in half an hour, but I saw it early since I have Dish Network and can get stuff 3 hours early.

TES,

You wrote, “No matter who is elected, I am not very optimistic when I look
at where we are. ”

Personally, I’m very optimistic that our country will do well in the next 8
years no matter who is in office.

Here are some great and powerfully effective leaders of the past.
Ghandl, Hitler, Stalin, Marx, Reagan, Roosevelt….Great and effective leadership does not always mean the direction of the leader is the right way to go. Obama may be a better motivator in speeches, and grand idioligy, but can we trust a guy who allies himself with socialism, and Marxism. These are his actions. In his words he denies everything, kind of like Arafat. I don’t think he has changed anything. I’m not saying he’s evil or going to usher in the Antichrist like many fear mongering religious groups.
i have friends that love socialism and think the ideals of Marxism were good, but I wouldn’t want them as president of my country. I think people are turning a blind eye to Obama’s assosiation with Ayers, Khalidi (the spokesman for the PLO when they were on USA’s terrorist list), Marxism, and socialism. The reason is simple. They want somebody different than a republican. anybody will do. especially if they are extremely opposite than Bush. I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I think Hillary would have been better. I don’t like Hillary.

Dalen,

I don’t take the socialist associations seriously. As for Khalidi in
particular, check out this link:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/29/is-columbia-professor-khalidi-a-political-ally-of-barack-obama/

“The Verdict: Misleading. While Khalidi eight years ago hosted a political
fund-raiser for Obama, the two men strongly disagree over the
Israeli-Palestinian issue and there’s no evidence of a continuing political
relationship.”

Obama was a Professor at the University of Chicago for 12 years. Ayres was
also a Professor at the same University. People who work together hang out,
and even (gasp) become friends. Big deal. According to polls, more than half
of this country favors Barack Obama. Those who support him aren’t concerned
about these “associations”. Do you honestly think that many Americans,
including the world’s richest man, Warren Buffet, are that dumb?

I’m not.

I simply want to consider my vote. I like Barack. I like John McCain. I’m
not so fond of Biden. I’m not all that crazy about Palin. Too bad we
couldn’t write in an Obama/McCain ticket. Wouldn’t that be somethin’.

I couldnt disagree more with the comment about needing someone who can lead regardless of if we believe in their character. Think about that statement for a moment, would you vote for Bin Laden then if he were running. Surely he is a leader and has proven he can lead? Would you have voted for Hitler? Now I’m not comparing Obama to those men but its important to not be led for the sake of being led. You must consider where the person is taking you and decide if that is where you want to follow. Lets put in perspective we have heard arguments downplaying Obamas ties to Wright, Ayers, etc yet these men all believe in socialism. Now tapes come out where Obama has talked about redistribution of wealth for yrs which is what socialism is. He is talking about tax cuts for people who dont even pay taxes which means rebate check. Who should get paid for just existing? The truth is he slipped up and let his true feelings slip out with Joe the Plumber. Can you really believe anything the man has said? Do you believe he sat through 2 sermons a month for yrs over 500 sermons and never heard Wright say any of these things? Is that the idealogy you really wanting leading this country?

Jeez, DT, just what was bad about his conversation with Joe the Plumber?
Unless you’re a person who already has decided to vote against him and are
looking for a reason to bad mouth him, his conversation with that total fake
was of little consequence. ALL taxes “redistribute wealth”. Obama’s tax
plan rolls back TEMPORARY cuts made by Bush. It would be pretty much the
same as the Reagan years. Was Reagan a socialist?

As for Wright, as I’ve said before, many Pastors all across this country
make the same statements on any given Sunday. In the churches I grew up in
we constantly heard about how God was going to damn our country for this
offense or that offense. What Wright said isn’t new, either. I personally
know someone who sat in his congregation for some time and never heard him
say anything alarming.

Donny,
Reagan would have had a better tax plan if it were not for the democrats in congress. Do you want to go back to that horrific idea of capital gains tax. Also, I fully agree that you will rub elbows with diverse peoples of quite a spectrum of political ideas if you lie a life of a politician. I wouldn’t go as far as saying that Obama’s rubbing elbows with terrorists like Palin. That’s getting to be irrational. I do think that his closeness with many of these radical types shows more of his color as a sympathizer with radical politics. Obama will not have enough power to completely turn our country into a socialist country, but I think it will be the most radical towards “stealing fro the rich to give to the poor” as we’ve ever seen.
A McCain/Obama ticket I would vote for. A co-presidency.

Hey here’s a good take from Dennis Miller
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=449_1225330016

if bin laden could lead our country efficiently and effectively, sure, give him the white house.

i think george w. bush is a man of character. i think he really does have a good heart. but how has he lead us? where is our country now?

give me someone who can lead.

if your son or daughter has an incurable disease, and the only person who can treat your daughter is a doctor is an atheist who beats his wife, do you allow him to treat your child? of course you do.

so who cares what goes on in our president’s personal life? who cares who obama is friends with or goes to church with?

look at how he leads vs. how mccain leads. come to a decision that way.

and i’m not saying obama leads better, but just look at leadership and efficiency.

Hi, Donny. In reference to your response to Dalen earlier–actually, I was kind of daydreaming about a McCain/Biden ticket. Don’t think it would ever work, but a girl can dream.

I pray that God gives you the clear answer you’re looking for. Or that the answer he’s already given you stands out and shines brightly among the rest of your options. We know He’s going to answer your prayer because you’ve prayed it. Let’s just hope it’s before the Nov. 4th deadline!

In response to Stephen, in the case of the atheist/wife-beating doctor, there appears to be no other choice. It’s an “incurable disease,” it’s “your daughter,” and he’s “the only person” who can help. It’s dramatic. Clearly, this is a much different situation than election day. There is a choice on election day and there is no immediate emergency. Plus, we’re choosing between two qualified individuals.

Again to Donny: I think a lot of churchy people choose to vote republican simply because of the abortion issue, but I’d say a lot of pro-choice people blindly vote democrat for the same reason, right? I don’t know; it’s just my guess.

Celeste,

I’d agree: a lot of Pro-Choice people likely “blindly vote Democrat” because of the abortion issue. In my mind, however, here is the difference:

Dems “walk the walk” on this issue. They say they are pro-choice and their actions prove it.

Republicans use the issue to get votes, then forget about it until the next election. More than 30 years of Rep rule since 1973 has not overturned it. But each election Christians vote as if “just one more Republican” will do the trick. I don’t think so.

I don’t recall a single Rep President apologizing for Roe v Wade either. They need to do so, however, since it was a Republican nominated Supreme Court that made the ruling in ’73. They also need to apologize for the lack of action on the part of our current Supreme Court, which is comprised of 7 (out of 9) Republican nominated Justices. And they need to be honest with the American people who are Pro-Life by admitting the issue will likely not be changed with yet another Republican nominated Justice.

To use the deaths of the unborn to get votes is disgusting to me. It angers me. I’d rather a man honestly disagree with me than to pretend to agree yet lack the actions to demonstrate it. Know what I mean?

So… should I trust a McCain/Palin ticket to work hard to overturn Roe v Wade? Honestly, I think Palin is grossly unqualified to be VP but I DO think she’d work her butt off on abortion if someone lit a fire under her ass about it. But do I vote based on this hope? Do I ignore the other issues on which I agree more with Obama’s position? I want the murder of innocents to stop but in 4 or 8 years will a M/P ticket accomplish that? And if not, what will we miss out on?

Decisions, decisions…

One thing I forgot to mention in that last comment is this:

I don’t think McCain will do anything that results in Roe v Wade being overturned. Why? Because when asked about it just a matter of days ago he bluntly stated that for any Justices he nominates to the Supreme Court, their opinions on abortion will NOT be a litmus test.

In other words: same ol’ thing.

He has no problems stating his opinion that life begins at conception. He is not afraid to state that he thinks Roe v Wade was a flawed decision. But he is also telling us that, if President, the next Justice nominated to the Supreme Court might not agree with him.

Business as usual: use the issue to get votes, but do nothing about it once elected.

This is what angers me about the Republican Party and the Evangelical vote.

All taxes do not re-distribute wealth Donny. Most taxes are generally used to fund general things needed for all people such as the military etc. Obama has talked about in the past if you listen to his comments re-distruting the wealth which is taking money from one group and giving it to another in this case people who do not even pay taxes. We are not talking about taxing people for general needs he is talking about taking it from some and giving it to others. This is socialism. Have you heard his recorded conversation where he speaks of the civil rights movement not going far enough because it did not re-distribute the wealth? We can talk about tax cuts and tax increases etc all we want but the truth is that only one time in our history were taxes raised during a bad economy and it was hoover and it led to the great depression. Bottom line is that increasing taxes actually leads to less taxes collected and decreasing taxes at the top always leads to more taxes collected. When asked about this in an interview Obama said he didnt care he thought it was fair to re-distribute the money. What this says is he really doesnt understand how the economy works or more importantly he doesnt care and its more important for him to push is idealogy than it is what is best for the country. Socialism does not work never has never will.

I found this article which explains I think why I refer to Obama having the views of socialism.

The late Robert Heilbroner – a socialist for most of his life – admitted after the collapse of the Iron Curtain that socialism “was the tragic failure of the twentieth century. Born of a commitment to remedy the economic and moral defects of capitalism, it has far surpassed capitalism in both economic malfunction and moral cruelty.”

This failure was unavoidable. It was predicted from the start by wise economists, such as F.A. Hayek, who understood that no government agency can gather and process all the knowledge necessary to plan the productive allocation of millions of different resources.

Likewise, socialism’s requirement that each person behave in ways prescribed by government planners is a recipe for tyranny. A central plan, by its nature, denies to individuals the right to choose and to innovate. It replaces a multitude of individual plans – each of which can be relatively easily adjusted in light of competitive market feedback – with one gigantic, monopolistic, and politically favored plan.

A happy difference separating today from the 1930s is that, unlike back then, no serious thinkers or groups in America now push for this kind of full-throttle socialism.

But what about a milder form of socialism? If reckoned as an attitude rather than a set of guidelines for running an economy, socialism might well describe Senator Obama’s economics. Anyone who speaks glibly of “spreading the wealth around” sees wealth not as resulting chiefly from individual effort, initiative, and risk-taking, but from great social forces beyond any private producer’s control. If, say, the low cost of Dell computers comes mostly from government policies (such as government schooling for an educated workforce) and from culture (such as Americans’ work ethic) then Michael Dell’s wealth is due less to his own efforts and more to the features of the society that he luckily inhabits.

Wealth, in this view, is produced principally by society. So society’s claim on it is at least as strong as that of any of the individuals in whose bank accounts it appears. More important, because wealth is produced mostly by society (rather than by individuals), taxing high-income earners more heavily will do little to reduce total wealth production.

This notion of wealth certainly warrants the name “socialism,” for it gives the abstraction “society” pride of place over flesh-and-blood individuals. If taxes are reduced on Joe the Plumber’s income, the rationale must be that Joe deserves a larger share of society’s collectively baked pie and not that Joe earned his income or that lower taxes will inspire Joe to work harder.

This “socialism-lite,” however, is as specious as is classic socialism. And its insidious nature makes it even more dangerous. Across Europe, this “mild” form of socialism acts as a parasitic ideology that has slowly drained entrepreneurial energy – and freedoms – from its free-market host.

Could it happen in America? Consider the words of longtime Socialist Party of America presidential candidate Norman Thomas: “The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of liberalism, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.” In addition to Medicare, Social Security, and other entitlement programs, the gathering political momentum toward single-payer healthcare – which Obama has proclaimed is his ultimate goal – shows the prescience of Thomas’s words.

The fact that each of us depends upon the efforts of millions of others does not mean that some “society” transcending individuals produces our prosperity. Rather, it means that the vast system of voluntary market exchange coordinates remarkably well the efforts of millions of individuals into a productive whole. For Obama to suggest that government interfere in this process more than it already does – to “spread” wealth from Joe to Bill, or vice versa – overlooks not only the voluntary and individual origins of wealth, but the dampening of the incentives for people to contribute energetically to wealth’s continued production.

• Donald J. Boudreaux is professor of economics at George Mason University. He is the author of “Globalization.”

Don’t really want to contribute to what has become a polarized debate contrary to the post Donny made. Just wanted to say that in the grand scope of things America is so incredible blessed to have two candidates that most of the world would quite literally go to war for to have run their country.

Also though this isnt the space if anyone lives in San Francisco please vote no on Proposition K which as San Francisco’s District Attorney Kamala Harris, has said “would expressly bar the investigation and prosecution of human trafficking crimes. Human trafficking is a serious problem in San Francisco. Many people in the commercial sex trade have been trafficked and forced to participate in commercial sex. This measure would attempt to provide safe harbor to their traffickers.” I think that’s one thing everyone can agree shouldn’t happen.