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	<title>Comments on: Conversations with Ted Haggard (Part II)</title>
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	<link>http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2009/07/10/conversations-with-ted-haggard-part-ii/</link>
	<description>The Blog of Donny Pauling: former porn producer, changed by Grace and Love...</description>
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		<title>By: J.R.</title>
		<link>http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2009/07/10/conversations-with-ted-haggard-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-4265</link>
		<dc:creator>J.R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jan 2010 19:27:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donnysramblings.com/?p=1330#comment-4265</guid>
		<description>Donny... You&#039;re the best ex-porn producer I know and I love you! Now, tell you&#039;re mom hi!!!!!!!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Donny&#8230; You&#8217;re the best ex-porn producer I know and I love you! Now, tell you&#8217;re mom hi!!!!!!!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Donny Pauling</title>
		<link>http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2009/07/10/conversations-with-ted-haggard-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-4259</link>
		<dc:creator>Donny Pauling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 19:47:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donnysramblings.com/?p=1330#comment-4259</guid>
		<description>Also, Mike, you might wonder where the strong emotions come from.  They&#039;re really not necessarily personal to you.  It&#039;s just that legalism keeps people away from God.  Think about it from another perspective.  Well, even think about how my words and JR&#039;s words make you feel.  When you&#039;re chastised does it make you MORE or LESS likely to listen to what we&#039;re saying?  Human nature dictates that you&#039;re less likely to listen to someone when that person gets up in your face.  But that&#039;s exactly what a legalist does to those who need God most.  

Furthermore, God doesn&#039;t put labels on sin, and since each of us sin on an almost daily basis it becomes obvious that not one of us has the right to point out the sin in others.  Not one.  Fortunately Jesus paid our ransom, but how arrogant are we do go around acting better than anybody else when we&#039;ve got someone else paying our tab &#039;cause we can&#039;t afford to pay it ourselves?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, Mike, you might wonder where the strong emotions come from.  They&#8217;re really not necessarily personal to you.  It&#8217;s just that legalism keeps people away from God.  Think about it from another perspective.  Well, even think about how my words and JR&#8217;s words make you feel.  When you&#8217;re chastised does it make you MORE or LESS likely to listen to what we&#8217;re saying?  Human nature dictates that you&#8217;re less likely to listen to someone when that person gets up in your face.  But that&#8217;s exactly what a legalist does to those who need God most.  </p>
<p>Furthermore, God doesn&#8217;t put labels on sin, and since each of us sin on an almost daily basis it becomes obvious that not one of us has the right to point out the sin in others.  Not one.  Fortunately Jesus paid our ransom, but how arrogant are we do go around acting better than anybody else when we&#8217;ve got someone else paying our tab &#8217;cause we can&#8217;t afford to pay it ourselves?</p>
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		<title>By: Donny Pauling</title>
		<link>http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2009/07/10/conversations-with-ted-haggard-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-4258</link>
		<dc:creator>Donny Pauling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 19:33:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donnysramblings.com/?p=1330#comment-4258</guid>
		<description>Mike,

I thought about not bothering to reply myself, but since JR has done so I will too.  

I want you to think with your father cap.  Let&#039;s say one of your boys was out here in California and he got himself into a lot of trouble, screwing up his life to the point where he was living in a gutter somewhere.  Let&#039;s say it was a life and death situation and it wouldn&#039;t wait until you could arrive from New York.  Wouldn&#039;t you want someone to go pull him out?  Would you want that person to first pre-qualify him to make sure he had given up all his addictions, his sins, before saving his life?  Or would you rather that person let YOU handle the issues, and have THEM just save his life?

THAT is what we&#039;re called to do as Christians, Mike.  We&#039;re called to go pull people out of gutters.  We&#039;re NOT called to decide if they deserve it.  God has a &quot;you catch &#039;em, I&#039;ll clean &#039;em&quot; attitude.  He is not willing that ANY should perish.  Not one of us deserve His grace (which is why it&#039;s called &quot;grace&quot; to begin with).  You and I with our imperfect lives are in no place to pass judgment on others with imperfect lives.  Just keep reaching into gutters and then TRUST GOD to clean up the lives of those we help pull out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike,</p>
<p>I thought about not bothering to reply myself, but since JR has done so I will too.  </p>
<p>I want you to think with your father cap.  Let&#8217;s say one of your boys was out here in California and he got himself into a lot of trouble, screwing up his life to the point where he was living in a gutter somewhere.  Let&#8217;s say it was a life and death situation and it wouldn&#8217;t wait until you could arrive from New York.  Wouldn&#8217;t you want someone to go pull him out?  Would you want that person to first pre-qualify him to make sure he had given up all his addictions, his sins, before saving his life?  Or would you rather that person let YOU handle the issues, and have THEM just save his life?</p>
<p>THAT is what we&#8217;re called to do as Christians, Mike.  We&#8217;re called to go pull people out of gutters.  We&#8217;re NOT called to decide if they deserve it.  God has a &#8220;you catch &#8216;em, I&#8217;ll clean &#8216;em&#8221; attitude.  He is not willing that ANY should perish.  Not one of us deserve His grace (which is why it&#8217;s called &#8220;grace&#8221; to begin with).  You and I with our imperfect lives are in no place to pass judgment on others with imperfect lives.  Just keep reaching into gutters and then TRUST GOD to clean up the lives of those we help pull out.</p>
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		<title>By: J.R.</title>
		<link>http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2009/07/10/conversations-with-ted-haggard-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-4257</link>
		<dc:creator>J.R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 19:08:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donnysramblings.com/?p=1330#comment-4257</guid>
		<description>&quot;God is my defender.&quot; I was waiting for that and you did not dissapoint. As with most legalists after making a jackass of yourself you wrap the word tightly around actions and words which seem to make you somehow clean of all the crap you dish into the world. 

Get off your horse Mike, come out of the glass house and for God sake read the word of God and find God&#039;s heart not simply your point to be proven...  cowardliness consumes you and fear spins your rules into the lives of others. 

We will not seek you as you sought us... think about, you sought us... hmmmm and now you want to make rules. Cowardly Pharisee, viper, son of the devil those are things you undersatnd, no? 

Mike soften your heart and hit your knees, shed the heart of man and take on the spirit of God you&#039;ll wear it better and might make a difference in this evil world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;God is my defender.&#8221; I was waiting for that and you did not dissapoint. As with most legalists after making a jackass of yourself you wrap the word tightly around actions and words which seem to make you somehow clean of all the crap you dish into the world. </p>
<p>Get off your horse Mike, come out of the glass house and for God sake read the word of God and find God&#8217;s heart not simply your point to be proven&#8230;  cowardliness consumes you and fear spins your rules into the lives of others. </p>
<p>We will not seek you as you sought us&#8230; think about, you sought us&#8230; hmmmm and now you want to make rules. Cowardly Pharisee, viper, son of the devil those are things you undersatnd, no? </p>
<p>Mike soften your heart and hit your knees, shed the heart of man and take on the spirit of God you&#8217;ll wear it better and might make a difference in this evil world.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Bacher</title>
		<link>http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2009/07/10/conversations-with-ted-haggard-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-4255</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Bacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 19:04:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donnysramblings.com/?p=1330#comment-4255</guid>
		<description>Donny…J.R. being a man of my word and after a few days of thinking this through and praying about it, here is my response (after which I will no longer be in contact nor do I wish to be sought out). I can see we are clearly in disagreement and this has taken a turn for the worse. I don’t think going any further would edify either of us, let alone anyone else reading these comments. I will stand resolute in allowing God to reveal our hearts actions and thoughts, he is my defender. I leave you with my prayers for you as I will ask you to do the same for me. 
God Bless</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Donny…J.R. being a man of my word and after a few days of thinking this through and praying about it, here is my response (after which I will no longer be in contact nor do I wish to be sought out). I can see we are clearly in disagreement and this has taken a turn for the worse. I don’t think going any further would edify either of us, let alone anyone else reading these comments. I will stand resolute in allowing God to reveal our hearts actions and thoughts, he is my defender. I leave you with my prayers for you as I will ask you to do the same for me.<br />
God Bless</p>
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		<title>By: Donny Pauling</title>
		<link>http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2009/07/10/conversations-with-ted-haggard-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-4127</link>
		<dc:creator>Donny Pauling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 08:14:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donnysramblings.com/?p=1330#comment-4127</guid>
		<description>Mike,

Comment #29 is JR.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike,</p>
<p>Comment #29 is JR.</p>
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		<title>By: J.R.</title>
		<link>http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2009/07/10/conversations-with-ted-haggard-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-4119</link>
		<dc:creator>J.R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 04:39:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donnysramblings.com/?p=1330#comment-4119</guid>
		<description>Donny, I doubt Mike knows a gay person let alone would lay life his down for one. Legalism runs rampant in Mike&#039;s world. His comments are typical of a life lived in rule not in grace or love... heart of a Pharisee.  Mike lives in a world that would love the &quot;witch-hunt&quot; on gays to more successful. That ain&#039;t our world as Christ has changed our hearts. 

Pray Mike lose his life to find it. Pray Mike strives to be like Christ and not tied to ideology and judgment of those who do not yet know Christ. 

J.R.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Donny, I doubt Mike knows a gay person let alone would lay life his down for one. Legalism runs rampant in Mike&#8217;s world. His comments are typical of a life lived in rule not in grace or love&#8230; heart of a Pharisee.  Mike lives in a world that would love the &#8220;witch-hunt&#8221; on gays to more successful. That ain&#8217;t our world as Christ has changed our hearts. </p>
<p>Pray Mike lose his life to find it. Pray Mike strives to be like Christ and not tied to ideology and judgment of those who do not yet know Christ. </p>
<p>J.R.</p>
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		<title>By: Donny Pauling</title>
		<link>http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2009/07/10/conversations-with-ted-haggard-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-4114</link>
		<dc:creator>Donny Pauling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 01:36:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donnysramblings.com/?p=1330#comment-4114</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-4110&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Mike Bacher &lt;/a&gt; 

Mike, for the record that wasn&#039;t JR commenting.  It was me, but I referred to a post he&#039;d written.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-4110" rel="nofollow">@Mike Bacher </a> </p>
<p>Mike, for the record that wasn&#8217;t JR commenting.  It was me, but I referred to a post he&#8217;d written.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Bacher</title>
		<link>http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2009/07/10/conversations-with-ted-haggard-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-4112</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Bacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 01:27:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donnysramblings.com/?p=1330#comment-4112</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-4103&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Donny Pauling &lt;/a&gt; 
I&#039;m glad you didn&#039;t use the bat you refereed to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-4103" rel="nofollow">@Donny Pauling </a><br />
I&#8217;m glad you didn&#8217;t use the bat you refereed to.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Bacher</title>
		<link>http://www.donnypauling.com/blog/2009/07/10/conversations-with-ted-haggard-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-4111</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Bacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 01:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donnysramblings.com/?p=1330#comment-4111</guid>
		<description>Alright quickly then I really have to go for now. To your comment #24 We are in agreement here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alright quickly then I really have to go for now. To your comment #24 We are in agreement here.</p>
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